787 oil pump bleeding

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Agree, blue or green is usually TCW3, the incorrect type b/c it's made for low temperature cylinder wall engines and has the hydrazine no-ash detergent additive package (smells like ammonia).

The Seadoo engines are high(er) temp engines thus need the type of oil used for hot air cooled 2-strokes, it's called low ash API-TC rating and there's a Japanese JAS equivalent (I forgot the type, sorry). We need the low ash API-TC additive package, the hydrazine additive package will fail and gum the rings.

The API-TC low ash additive package is incompatible to mix with TCW3, so you must clean your tank, the filter and line to the oil pump of all the TCW3 bits otherwise when they mix they congeal to a gelatinous mucus the injection pump cannot pump.

The flash point and film strength of synthetic API-TC is better than mineral API-TC thus the RAVE valves will not have rapid carbon deposits and overall wear is reduced. Thus synthetic API-TC is preferred.

I think you got unlucky with the air bubble, disconnect the line and hold it upward so the bubble can escape. I would disconnect either at the filter or at the pump. That's why we use clear lines.

Good luck!

 

[M4rt1n]

Yea my plan is to take the tank out today and get all of the oil out.

I'm just going to pay the crazy over price for the brp. Cheapest I can find it is £60.

To be honest it was probably quite lucky that I had the air bubble. Its prevented me from running my engine with the crappy oil. Should I also remove the two smaller oil lines and replace them?

 

[Bjsaleen]

after you fill the tank, take a 20cc syringe filled with oil and back fill the lines.all air will escape

 

[M4rt1n]

Ok the oil tank has been fully cleaned and I had enough spare hose to just replace them all.

I have this oil too. The spec is JASO-FC, ICO-L-EGD, API-TC.

It doesn't mention TC -W3 like my other oil so is this suitable?

 

[M4rt1n]

Sorry for the bad quality of the pic

 

[CReynoldsMIZ]

Not 100% sure, never heard of that brand. The seadoo 787s call for full synthetic oil tho, not blend

 

[M4rt1n]

Yea think I'm just going buy the proper stuff. I was in two minds wether or not to just run premix instead but everyone seems to say the pumps are fine so I will stick with it.

 

[M4rt1n]

Is rock oil mpr injection oil suitable? To the best of my very limited knowledge it seems to be of a similar spec.

Ita just not as expensive as the xps

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Is rock oil mpr injection oil suitable? To the best of my very limited knowledge it seems to be of a similar spec.

Ita just not as expensive as the xps

The answer is affirmative, according to the manufacturer's labeling.

"Rock Oil MPR 2T Injector is a non TCW-3 fully synthetic marine 2 stroke oil designed for use in Sea-Doo jet skis and other Rotax engined marine equipment. MPR Injector can be used with leaded or unleaded petrol or avgas and is suitable for use in Sea-Doo and other rotary 2 cycle engines where a low ash oil, instead of an ashless oil, is required. "

 

[ski-d00]

I've never heard of that oil before. For me to use an oil, it would have to be proven. You are potentially risking thousands to save a few buck. BRP did an oil study like 15 years ago against a couple of the oil competitors that had the proper ratings vs. their XPS. They showed pics of cylinder wear that was substantial in the others and basically no wear with their oil. Maybe somebody could google this and find the article?

 

[racerxxx]

I've never heard of that oil before. For me to use an oil, it would have to be proven. You are potentially risking thousands to save a few buck. BRP did an oil study like 15 years ago against a couple of the oil competitors that had the proper ratings vs. their XPS. They showed pics of cylinder wear that was substantial in the others and basically no wear with their oil. Maybe somebody could google this and find the article?

http://xteam.ski-doo.com/en-us/ski-doo-straight-talk-why-we-offer-our-own-sled-oil/


SKI-DOO STRAIGHT TALK: WHY WE OFFER OUR OWN SNOWMOBILE OIL
Posted on January, 31 2013

For snowmobiles, there are no recognized industry standards for protection or performance. Anyone can claim to produce a “good/great” oil for 2-stroke snowmobile engines with no testing to back it up. So the buzz on snowmobile oils has been constant and confusing for years. Our goal with this article is to help you understand why we offer our own oil for our vehicles, straight up.

Synthetic base oils offer superior protection and lubricity. They are clean and consistent. Think of mineral oil as gravel or sand, with each granule a different in size and shape. Synthetic base stocks are more like ball bearings, the molecules are all the same size, shape and consistency. Even then, not all Synthetic base stocks are the same quality and the proper base oil should be used for the specific engine application.

The real determining factor of a 2-stroke oil’s performance is the additive package. That’s why the majority of time spent testing in the creation of an oil formula is centered on finding the right additives and the right combination of ingredients.

A properly formulated 2-stroke oil will contain an optimized combination of more than 100 different components and chemicals such as base oils, solvents, esters, anti-wear, detergents, pour point depressants, lubricity enhancers, dispersants, corrosion inhibitors, and many more. There are dozens of options for each of these components – meaning there are thousands of potential combinations.

The formula and additive package are determined by what each type of engine requires for protection. One brand might be concerned about carbon build-up in the ring lands, or keeping exhaust valves clean over many miles. One brand might need a low pull-effort. One brand might want to run with a very lean mix ratio.

No two engine manufacturers have the same requirements, so oils that are engineered for specific engines may not work well in another brand engine. This is the main reason why you should strongly consider using your manufacturer’s oil.

You be the judge when it comes to claims. How can any oil claim to protect Brand A that requires larger amounts of solvents, and also protect Brand B which requires more lubricating elements to stay on parts longer in a lean engine (which solvents wash away), and THEN protect Brand C that requires different lubricity elements for easy starting with higher compression? The answer is they can’t be all things to all engines – something will be compromised compared to oil specifically designed to protect your engine.

At BRP, our XPS oils are specifically formulated for the specific characteristics of our Rotax engines. We can’t say how they would perform in another brand vehicle for sure, because we haven’t tested them there. However, we do know that they are the only lubricants that meet the BRP engineering team’s high standards for performance and durability.

Getting it just right for your Rotax engine is something we take very seriously. In fact, over three years, we spent more than $2 million and test-rode more than 1 million miles to develop and prove both our 2-stroke and 4-stroke XPS formulations.

Have a question about XPS oils? Leave it in the comments below.

See the entire line of XPS products created specifically for BRP vehicles.

 

[racerxxx]

I didn't listen to this video, speakers no functional on my PC right now.


[video=youtube;7nBRiSYtZ-o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nBRiSYtZ-o[/video]

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

I wish that article would've fessed up on the subject of base oils since they brought up the subject. The Brand A vs Brand B; solvents and lubricating elements argument kind of loses steam when we have three or four Rotax engines, so how can a single oil lubricate them all, the 800 or 951 certainly aren't the same motor, LOL.

Belray H1R is IMO the best one out there and I'd bet it outperforms XPS2 in Seadoo engines although I use XPS2 and have no plans to change that.

http://www.belray.com/2-stroke-lubrication

 

[M4rt1n]

Thanks for all the info. I will get the xps oil to stay on he safe side. The main reason I was looking at alternatives is that the xps2 is not so readily available in the UK unlike the rock oil.

I want to give it the best tho so I will 100% be ordering the xps today.

Again thanks for all the help. If it wasn't for you lot I would be running tcw3 and would still have had no idea the damage I would be doing

 

[mikidymac]

Are you sure the arrow on the filter is pointed in the correct direction? I know at one point Seadoo changed the oil filters and you can't always go by the shape of the filter alone. Make sure the arrow on the side is facing the engine.

 

[M4rt1n]

Yea definitely the correct way around. That was my first thought.

Ordered my xps2 oil this morning sp hopefully I will get it in the next few days.

Will keep you updated if I still have the same issue.