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4-tec bendix failure

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68ragtop

68ragtop

Well-Known Member
Pricing out some parts that I will be needing for my most recent project ski. The big surprise was the cost of a new starter bendix. Over $350 list! Do these fail often? I see used ones selling on ebay for under $45.00 If these are known to fail, I will have to pony up for the new one. But if this is not a common occurrence, maybe its worth trying a used one? I guess the risk is having to replace it again, & it looks to be a time consuming project, not a simple swap out. Seems like an incredibly over priced part.

Any thoughts?

Thanks, 68RT
 
The starters fail more often then the bendix. If you need a starter you WANT an OEM one. The bendix is not as important to have an OEM product.

If you can find a good used one I would not be afraid if it.
[MENTION=41828]Minnetonka4me[/MENTION] can help you with parts and you KNOW they will be good.
 
Starter works fine, just no egagement from the helix. Maybe it was fluke that this one failed at 62 hours? But I am not complaining, if it didn't fail I wouldn't own the ski right now. ;)
I was surprised to find the bendix was inside the engine however. If they are not known to fail, I might go with a used one. Looking at the engine, it would appear I can remove the front PTO cover without pulling the engine. If it turns out to be a fairly easy job to get it all apart, I'll probably try a used one. Normally I would just buy an oem new one, & am not really trying to cut corners. But I can't understand the $350 price tag for just the bendix. Make no sense to me at all...
 
68ragtop said:
Starter works fine, just no egagement from the helix. Maybe it was fluke that this one failed at 62 hours? But I am not complaining, if it didn't fail I wouldn't own the ski right now. ;)
I was surprised to find the bendix was inside the engine however. If they are not known to fail, I might go with a used one. Looking at the engine, it would appear I can remove the front PTO cover without pulling the engine. If it turns out to be a fairly easy job to get it all apart, I'll probably try a used one. Normally I would just buy an oem new one, & am not really trying to cut corners. But I can't understand the $350 price tag for just the bendix. Make no sense to me at all...
Click to expand...

350 is no bargain...
 
Sportster-2001-951C-Stock said:
I'm wondering if the bendix failed b/c the starter solenoid got stuck.
Click to expand...

Good Possibility, or maybe the P.O. didn't like to let go of the start button? Or does the solenoid power automatically get interrupted by the ECU once they start? Are your thoughts maybe its stripped out internally & not stuck?

I'll probably pull the cover tomorrow night or this weekend to assess the damage.
 
BTW, It feels weird hanging out in the 4-stroke forum. Definitely out of my comfort area.... ;)
 
68ragtop said:
Good Possibility, or maybe the P.O. didn't like to let go of the start button? Or does the solenoid power automatically get interrupted by the ECU once they start? Are your thoughts maybe its stripped out internally & not stuck?

I'll probably pull the cover tomorrow night or this weekend to assess the damage.
Click to expand...

It's really tough to say what exactly the bendix looks like now without tearing it out of there first, maybe the dogs just got stuck or something (assuming it has dogs).

It's possible the PO could've abused the starter somehow, by double bouncing on the start button for instance, dunno if the MPEM would let him do that, probably would.

But, normally the MPEM will shut off the starter solenoid current if it thinks the engine is turning 1000RPM on the 2 strokers, so probably some similar RPM on the 4 strokers, 750 RPM, I dunno, could be the same, 1000RPM

I replace a TON of starters on Mercruisers all the time due to hydrolocking alone, sometimes chews up the flywheel ring pretty good too, a PITA having to yank a motor for that.
 
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68ragtop said:
There's about 6 of them on ebay right now, most are in the $35-$75 range. I was hoping the low price was because there is no demand for them, & not because they fail often.

here's some examples: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-Seadoo..._Watercraft_Parts&hash=item232ee9ff37&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-2009-S..._Watercraft_Parts&hash=item4613133e88&vxp=mtr


Of coarse they have "low hours" Don't they all? Lol Hard to find those high hour, used parts :D
Click to expand...

Yep low hours, only driven on Sunday's by a little ol lady on her way to church...
 
68ragtop said:
Good Possibility, or maybe the P.O. didn't like to let go of the start button? Or does the solenoid power automatically get interrupted by the ECU once they start? Are your thoughts maybe its stripped out internally & not stuck?

I'll probably pull the cover tomorrow night or this weekend to assess the damage.
Click to expand...

I have read that the MPEM kills the power to the solenoid after a certain RPM is met.
 
Another fear in the back of my mind is that there was some sort of engine failure that happened first & the helix was damaged in tryint to re-start it. I guess thats the risk of buying a non-running machine. Time will tell.
 
68ragtop said:
Another fear in the back of my mind is that there was some sort of engine failure that happened first & the helix was damaged in tryint to re-start it. I guess thats the risk of buying a non-running machine. Time will tell.
Click to expand...

Chances are that something did happen to put the ski in the position it is in now.

Sadly, you don't get to find out until you complete the bendix...
 
Pulled the Drive out last night & that was a mess. Bearings were completely gone. Looks like there was supposed to be only one bearing in there, but it must have had two runs in one bearing assembly? Hard to tell when its destroyed. I think I was the first person to pull this apart. I assume these originally are just packed in synthetic grease?

Trying to post picts, but there appears to be something down with the site right now......


Also, according to the manual there should be over 1/2 qt of oil in the cover when I remove it. Do I really need to siphon this oil out first by removing the valve cover & chain tensioner? Seems like a lot of extra work, when there will still be a decent amount of oil spilling out after that process. I am guessing seadoo would never recomend just dumping a quart of oil into the hull & thats why they list the procedure?

They also show removing the water pump & LH motor mount. Looking at it, it would seem those parts could stay in place & just remove the cover?

Sorry for all the questions, just thought its worth asking since I am new to these engines.
 
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Got the cover off tonight. Pretty simple job, just a choir trying to collect all the oil as it fell from splitting the front cover. What I found was a bit of a surprise. The Bendix appeared to be just fine, however, the Ring gear was no longer part of the flywheel. I removed the flywheel & it was apparent it started to slip at some point & the two parts wore each other out. Loose as a goose. I was worried maybe the engine had gone tight, but it isn't. I think I will weld the ring gear on for testing purposes only. Get it to spin over again & do a compression test. If everything checks I'll out buy a new flywheel.

BTW, what is the best way to pull the flywheel? It took me forever to get it off. There is nothing listed in the service manual.

Thanks, 68RT
 

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Good one! That's the first time I've seen a ring gear come loose on any motor, and the ring isn't even cracked.

Did you use a heat wrench on that flywheel?
 
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I have seen flywheels fail and even the bolts that hold the flywheels on. But this is also a first that I have read the ring gear slipped. [MENTION=16022]Dr Honda[/MENTION] can answer your flywheel questions better than I can.
 
Sportster-2001-951C-Stock said:
Good one! That's the first time I've seen a ring gear come loose on any motor, and the ring isn't even cracked.

Did you use a heat wrench on that flywheel?
Click to expand...

I did, but not crazy hot. probably just a few hundred degree's? I found it difficult to pry it away from the crank, using the block as my leverage point. Just not much room in the hull. I just didn't expect it to fit so tight & not sure why it needs to be. Talk about backwards, flywheel was tight as could be on the crank, but the ring gear falls off the flywheel. :rolleyes:
 
The only other thing I found (so far) is the pump bearings being non existent I am sure that was causing some vibrations, & I have no idea how long it was run like that. Wear ring is pretty chewed up. I was very surprised when I pulled the pump & everything fell apart. I am having a heck of a time trying to get the outer race of the old bearing out of the housing. 30 ton, manually press isn't moving it. I think its had water in there for a while. Pretty sure its never been out of the boat for maintenance.

I'll try starting new posts for my journey with the 4tec, so I don't turn this one into a book. ;)
 
One more report & its good news!.... Welded the ring gear in place, & popped the PTO cover back on. Engine turns over fine. It had a tight spot when turning it over by hand, but using my borescope I could see some "light" rust on the #2 cylinder walls. I fogged the cylinders & spun it over for a while & its now smooth 360 degrees. Compression varies some & with the oil in there, I know I am possibly getting inflated readings.
I am getting between #170 - #185. Not too sure were these should be but I am guessing its close?

It sure sounds like it cranks slow, but I am guessing thats by design of the 4-tec? Maybe I am probably just used to the sound of my "2-smokes" ;)


Now I just need to pick up a new flywheel & rebuild the pump.
 
That is good news.

It would be great if that was the real and only failure

Congrats on the progress thus far.
 
I've never had a hard time removing a 4tec flywheel before. I've just removed the six bolts and it would slide right off.

Be sure you also replace the flywheel bolts.

I wouldn't worry about the cranking speed. They do seem to crank quite slow compared to a 2 stroke. :cheers:
 
Flywheels do normally come right off, maybe a light tap on the edge should be all that is needed. It's not like they are pressed on, just surface mount with a small guide pin for alignment. I've seen rings come off like that, also seen them completely chewed up and in pieces but usually in the first couple years of the 4tec. You will need to buy the new flywheel bolt kit 295501043 with the stretch bolts. Don't reuse your old bolts unless you're a gambling man but it isn't worth the $12 gamble imo.

Compression can vary quite a bit on the 4tecs, but around 135 is most common. I would worry too much about compression at this point or piston/cylinder wall condition, they are quite bullet proof for the most part similar to car engines, nothing like the two stroke issues. Valves, however, that's a different story.

Yes, 4tecs crank very slowly and laboring , very normal.
 
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