1998 Seadoo XPL Starer / Voltage Issue / Wont Start

[jonmueller]

I have this Jetski that I purchased about a season ago. I am now having some issues with it and have not had any problems in the past. The engine was recently completely rebuilt by a reputable shop in my area. I have since put about 20 hours on the Ski and started having this problem. When you try to start it the starter will kick over about half a rev and stop. If you hold the button down, it makes a series of jerkes and sounds like quick hammering. I have recently purchased a brand new battery and fully charged it, this was not the problem. I then went to the dealer and got a new starter relay after reading on this forum, and that too was not the problem. Just about an hour ago I went down to try and trouble shoot some more and jumped the 2 terminals on the relay to the starter and it magically spun over perfectly without the spark plugs. Put the plugs in and it seems to be turning over just fine (as long as you jump the connection to the starter). The dealer told me that it could be a weak starter, which I don't think that could be the issue as it starts just fine when you jump the connector. The only other part I was thinking it could be was the Voltage Regulator. It almost sounds like the starter is attempting to turn the motor over and then the voltage drops and kills the starter, then immediately back on and so forth. Or maybe the voltage to the other accessories such as the security lanyard is dropping too low and causing the starter to kill, then activate right after. It sounds like a series of banging quickly if you hold the button down. Occasionaly it will beep out and you will have to unplug and replug the lanyard to get it to start again. I didn't know if anyone on the forums has had this issue before. It was my understanding that the voltage rectifier was to regulate the voltage coming from the stator and to recharge the battery.

But again, it does seem like a voltage issue since the relay was replaced with a new one from the dealer, and installed correctly. The starter has been tested and kicks over perfectly. The engine is not locked up in any way and will spin over by hand. The only part of the puzzle I have not been able to test or replaced yet is the voltage regulator rectifier that sits outside the black electronics box. Could a bad rectifier cause the voltage to drop on startup and then kick right back in quickly?

 

[seadoosnipe]

Rectifier....?

No....I don't think that is your problem. I think, if you say the solenoid was replaced, it's likely you got a bad one. This is not un-common. Just because you get a new part, doesn't mean it's good. The reason is, you say you can jumper across the solenoid and the engine will spin over smoothly and if I read it right, with the plugs in, you can jumper and it still spins over smoothly. If you re-attach your wires and use your start/stop button and you are having problems with it rolling over smoothly, your trouble spot is going to be that solenoid. The rectifier/regulator is only going to regulate once the engine has been started and is running. The power system is totally reliant on the battery until ignition is established.
There is a possibility that one of your wires running from power control switches (start/stop) have some resistance and not allowing the full amount of power it takes to allow the solenoid to engage the starter (the small wires attached to the solenoid).
Although I think this may be totally irrelevant, how many beeps do you get when you attach your lanyard?...........

 

[kustomkarl]

:agree: Seadoosnipe is right on the money. It sounds to me too that the solenoid is at fault. Keep us posted on your results. If you still have questions give us a shout, and I'm sure you'll get a quick response.

Karl

 

[dieselman]

Or the teeth on your gear drive are worn that is why you are getting that hammering sound but with the plugs out there is no resistence so it will spin freely.

 

[kustomkarl]

That would make sense too!

 

[robin savell lloyd]

I do not think it would be starter as when he jumps over solinoid it spins nice with plugs in and with them out I beleive he is on the right track with what the dealer told him I beleive he started a new thread on this but I can be wrong.

 

[kustomkarl]

I really think we need more input on the starter subject from jonmueller.

 

[robin savell lloyd]

my bad it was someone elses post I was thinking about but still does not seem like starter but electricity is a funny beast.

 

[ScubaDoo]

Yes, electricity is a funny "beast" as such. It can mess with you just as soon as work for you at any given time.
ScubaDoo

 

[jonmueller]

I can go to the dealer tomorrow and get them to swap out the starter relay if you think that could be the issue. I am just getting tired of spending money on this thing without getting any results. The relay is doind the same thing it was before I replaced it, so my thought was that the old part wasn't bad either.

What other information could on post on here to make it easier to troubleshoot? I am not new to mechanics but this is my first ski I have ever needed to work on.

 

[jonmueller]

Okay, when I put the lanyard on it does appear to give me 2 quick beeps like it use to telling me I'm ready to start. The thing is, I think my beeper is going out so sometimes you can't hear it at all. If you listen closely with it to your ear you can, but the beeper is definately going out. This time when I tried to start it I would plug in the lanyard and get the beeps then hit the start button and it would try to engage just once, then stop, and I have to replace the lanyard to get it to try again. Still when I jump the connections, plugs in or out it will spin over and act like it can start just fine. If I try to hit the start button again with the lanyard in I can hear a click and a few seconds later it will click again. Almost sounds like something clicking on and off, I have no idea. It also doesn't sound like the clicking is coming from inside the black box, where with the old starter relay I could hear clicking coming from that. After one point right before I replaced the old relay it did start to make a buzzing sound, which told me that it was bad, and the new one does not seem to be making any of those kind of sounds.

 

[robin savell lloyd]

If you can jump across solinoid with the plugs in engine and engine spins then for some reason the solinoid is not working properly I have seen diferent kinds of solinoids yours probly has two small wires one hot one ground if you jump across big hot wire on solinoid to litle hot wire it should spin over if not make sure litle ground wire on solinoid has a good ground by the way you may want to disconect small wires as i do not no how your system is wired and you can pm me with your phone number and i can explain beter to you. robin

 

[jonmueller]

I called my local dealer today and talked to them about the issue. They "claim" that it could be 10 different things and that I should just bring it in for them to look at it. Labor rate is now 94$/h

They suggested that the lanyard itself could be bad, which doesn't make sense to me seeing as how it does give me the beeps and it does try to start which leads me to think that it is working correctly or none of that would even happen. Its also a peice of metal with an ohm resistance much like the one that you have probably seen on the old chevy keys that uses 15 different codes each with a different "ohm" resistance to tell the ignition it is the right one. I have never in my life seen a key go bad for any of my cars, and I have owned plenty of high milage chevys in my life.

The other thing they said is that the part that the lanyard plugs into is going bad and is not sending the correct ohm/voltage for it to start. Again, why would it give me the beeps telling me its okay if that was the issue. This part as well consists of 2 different metal connectors, both of which are in tact and functioning properly. If you wiggle and move the lanyard around it still seems to have a good connection. So I don't think that is my problem.

I had this jetski roll over on the trailer before (don't ask!!) from hitting a sharp curb going around a corner. The only damage done to it was the top section had to get replaced where the gauges go. I have already replaced all of this, but I am now starting to wonder if possibly I connected up the conections to the gauges/start button incorrectly. Even if I did, why would it even try to start one time, then sometimes constantly start and keep cutting power off to the starter?

Dealer also said that the new relays rarely go bad from what he has seen, unless they are not connected correctly.

Is there some way to test this stuff before I take it to the dealer? Does anyone have a schematic or diagram for how all the wires are suppose to connect to the gauge area? Or maybe a color coded list? From what I remember it was fairly straight forward but like I said, this is my first ski to work on, so it is possible I didn't connect something up right.

 

[jonmueller]

LOL, now I really feel stupid. It turns out that I poped the little cubby out and almost NONE of the wires are connected in the gauge area... hah. The weird thing is that I was having this problem BEFORE i replaced that part, and everything WAS connected. I am wondering if the problem was the relay since it was buzzing before. I basically have the wires connected but none of the gauges are. Or it is possible that I have no idea what is connected and they are all wrong. Does anyone have a picture or diagram or could anyone walk me through the process of connecting this stuff up correctly? Many of the wires are color coded, but it doesn't look like they all match up to the connectors with the same colors, ect.. Your help is greatly appreciated. This thing has been sitting now all year because of my own stupidity. Geez... when I opened that up and saw that crap all unconnected I kind of laughed to myself realizing all the hassle and time I have spent. Could have saved hours if I just looked there in the first place. I guess I forgot about it when I moved and just assumed I put it back at the same time I replaced the top half. Grrrr

 

[seadoosnipe]

$94 hour....

Oh yeah, you could have a blown fuse and by the description you give the repair outlet, they'd know that on the phone. Most of the time, these people feel you out to see how savvy you are so they know how to play you! It's all about the mighty dollar............
I'm glad to see you may have a solution to your problem....
When I first read your post and you spoke about how well it rolled over on your jumper, but not with the switch, I thought then that you may have a wire resistance problem. I believe I even posted words to that effect. Seems like that may be the case.......
I'm going to send you a PM to talk just a little more.......If your not familar with the PM's, look at the top right of this page and you'll see Private Messages.....and then you'll see an unread number.......click on messages.
Can't wait to hear from you....................:cheers:

 

[robin savell lloyd]

did you ever find out what was wrong.

 

[kustomkarl]

Are there any updates on this bizarre problem? I'm duying to catch up and hear of the turn out.

Karl