1997 gti “ spin out “ trying to take off

[Tima421]

Hi everyone ! New this summer to jet skis .100% mechanically inclined ( owned snowmobile, dirt bikes etc) Picked up a 1997 gti about 6 months ago . Idles perfect, runs great ( low & top end ) . 3 times out w 2 people on it no issues whatsoever. Meanwhile found another 1997 gti exactly the same . Both in great condition for the year . Finally was able to take it out for the first time a few weeks ago ! Runs great just like first one , got past “ no wake “ hit throttle, revs up to limiter but really no thrust ( looks like a hot tub full blast under the jet ski ) so back to trailer I go . ( impeller was totally fine) Found some good chunks of wear ring missing so I replaced it , neoprene seal & changed oil in pump . The clearance was so tight it actually shaved a hair off when first started . I knew the other jet ski had run great several times out already ( & exactly the same machine ) so I figured I’d swap out the whole entire pump assembly w the other one. So put the assembly w the new ring etc on the first on I had purchased that ran perfect w no issues & put that one on the ski I had taken out with the “ no thrust issue “ . Took both out this past weekend.... now both do the same thing ( almost couldn’t get to plane w 2 people on it ) after u can finally get both to plane out they run sweet the issue is only on take off ! I’m thinking both are 100% air leaking. I checked for anything stuck in grate or around drive shaft on both . Spun the pto by hand & impeller everything seems tight / together. What bugs me is that the one that ran perfect several times now w the opposite pump assembly w new parts runs the same like the newer I had bought w the “ no thrust “ issues ! & the newer one I bought w issues has the pump assembly from the one I first that ran great several times but does the same thing now ? Sry for the slightly confusing post lol

 

[mikidymac]

You need to make sure that the neoprene seal is installed and sealing the pump. The other place they can leak is the carbon ring driveshaft seal.

 

[Tima421]

I figured it was either one of those . But once the pump assembly is pushed on 4 bolts how do u ever know if u have a good seal ?

 

[Tima421]

Does seal go on hull or directly on wear ring ? The one I replaced was on hull so that’s where I put it

 

[mikidymac]

Yes, on the hull.

 

[Tima421]

Perfect! Thanks.

 

[Tima421]

So I took the pump back off the the one jetski yesterday .... new seal I put on looked good still . Just for positive reinforcement I put “some” blue rtv sealant around before installing the pump . So I knew it was sealed . Let it sit till today .... took it back out . Same problem.... from idle to full Throttle.... revs out to limiter .... sounds like it’s “ half “ thrusting .... then eventually catches full water & takes off! Recent New wear ring , took of impeller , checked all drive bearings, changed pump oil , & now have a new carbon seal as of yesterday to install ! Still seems like it’s getting air bubbles then all of the sudden it all circulates thru ... catches water & blasts off ! No bad w 1 person on it today but almost won’t plane out w 3 . No issues at all other than “ spin out @ take off ! Runs sweet ! Tempo lines all changed , new oil filter , both fuel filters etc , I am I missing something ?

 

[Tima421]

Wear ring clearance is probably half a penny thick at most ( no scratches etc ) impeller is very nice , I’ve checked both carbon seal on both . The silver collar does not slide ( assuming O rings are good ) , rubber boot moves around in circle , is hard to pull back away from collar & instantly snaps back tight again ! Looks like no tears in boot . This is like my last attempt to stop this air leak spin out issue ! No sure what else to do ?

 

[kenfyoozed]

could the wear ring be spinning?

 

[Tima421]

Intake grate is clear on both , have had both pump assemblies apart ( nothing wrapped around shaft/ impellers) splines look totally fine . Spun from pto side , everything spins together & feels tight !

 

[kenfyoozed]

oem wear ring? could it be spinning when the impeller spins?

 

[Tima421]

Not oem but had really good 5 star reviews ! Would that cause the “ spin out “ feeling ?

 

[Tima421]

But the first jet ski I bought was totally fine 3 times out on separate occasions. Then bought identical one ... took it out & did the “ spin out “ @ take off thing ! Replaced wear ring ( which had some pretty good cuts ) , neoprene seal & changed pump oil . Then swapped the entire pump assembly w the one I knew had zero issues ! That’s when all hell broke loose . They both do the exact same thing now ! Today I swapped pump assembly back again . Waiting for Friday to test again

 

[Tima421]

So non oem wear ring could spin causing that feeling but then stop spinning once it hit certain speed & just take right off like it should ? It’s totally fine once it planes out. how do I explain jet ski #2 doing the spin out thing w the pump assembly I had zero issues with ? I thought buying 2 jetskis that where identical model & yrs was a smart thing to do [emoji31] my first year / experience w jet skis is off to a good start ! I smell a 2019 spark in the near future [emoji38]

 

[Tima421]

I appreciate any help very much !

 

[hotrodssnova]

Still sounds like the wear ring has too much clearance or you are sucking air. Try taking a zip tie and put it around the carbon ring bellow to tighten it up. Just snug enough to force the carbon ring up to the steel ring. See if that has an effect. Not sure if that model has the bumpers on the drive shaft ends. A good picture of the impeller and wear ring might help.

 

[kenfyoozed]

Still sounds like the wear ring has too much clearance or you are sucking air. Try taking a zip tie and put it around the carbon ring bellow to tighten it up. Just snug enough to force the carbon ring up to the steel ring. See if that has an effect. Not sure if that model has the bumpers on the drive shaft ends. A good picture of the impeller and wear ring might help.

You are right ,The new wear ring may be sucking the bellows open. I think this is happening to mine as well but not to this of an extreme point. Sucking air will allow it to cavitate, engine tach up and forward motion dies down.

 

[Tima421]

I’ll get pics for ya ! Sounds like a good way to check that carbon seal ! I took both pumps off last night & put them on original machines . Jet ski #2 w new wear ring I noticed it did spin around a bit w ease & lifted out a bit w just one hand . I took it out & but some rtv sealer in there when I put it back on . That one is all set to go & my new neoprene seal is coming today for jet ski #1 . So now jet ski #1 will have its “ untouched “ pump assembly that was totally fine ( 3 times w at least 2 people ) before swapping over pumps . Fingers crossed !

 

[Tima421]

Working on these are easy & sorta fun . It’s driving 10 min , launching it , drive down a river “ no wake “ to main lake to test . Every time it’s been a failure . Turn around & come back etc etc

 

[Mekanix]

Pics, of the props, video of the carbon seal when you are taking off and it is cavitating.
Get that and it will be easy to diagnose.

 

[Tima421]

I think I found the issue . I took the pump totally apart . Found the bearing “ carrier” ( That both bearings / seal go in ) the whole metal part inside the plastic one piece pump unit to be bad ?! It moves back & fourth, & side to side quite a bit . It even ovaled out the thrust bearing & looked like the part of it ( not sure the name “ bearing carrier “ ) where the thread comes for impeller has corroded so badly it went thru ( in between the plastic pump unit & “ bearing carrier “ ) to the other side where the cone is & corroded to that to . Funny because when I changed the oil it was pretty black w no milkyness to it . Seems like it made everything all messed up . I put rtv sealant on wear so it wouldn’t “ spin “ . I did notice a slightly weird scraping sound when I test drive it again . Only to find out it still “ spins out “ on take off . The carbon seal / boot is so tight I can barely pull it back & the metal ring looks totally fine . I found a entire pump assembly w new impeller I’m installing the end of this week . If this doesn’t work I’m leaning towards pulling off the ride shoe & plate to re silicone.

 

[Tima421]

I forgot to add . When I install the new pump assembly I’m putting the entire carbon seal kit i have in just to make sure everything is good ! ( if anything I have a spare used carbon seal lol )

 

[Tima421]

Thanks for any/ all the help ! I soooo greatly appreciate it ! I jet ski down & 1 to go !

 

[Tima421]

So I’m almost 99% sure I found what it was . I’m waiting for my new pump assembly this Thursday. I figured I’d replace the carbon seal kit I got for good measure. I started to pull bellow back to get the metal ring off & pull out driveshaft . I must of pulled back 1 1/2 the length of it . Out comes a big fat o ring in the groove where that c clip should have been . So someone never put that back & just install a “ over sized “ o ring instead . That thing must of been opening up on take off with so much suction & air was going out like crazy !

 

[mikidymac]

The early ones used the o-ring but sometimes failed so Seadoo switched to the metal c clip. Pretty common to still find them with the o-ring.