RESTO 1997 Challenger 1800 no spark.. Ignition coil?

[Huntz52]

I purchased the challenger a few weeks ago knowing it had some engine issues but it was for a really good price. the guy that sold it to me said he had traded his motorcycle for the boat and that he has started it, but I believe he is full of it. Although this is what I have found: Both Engines roll over but won't start. I eventually picked up a spark wire tester and sure enough am not getting any spark. I was messing around and checking to make sure electricity was hitting where it should in the MPEM just by following the wires from the battery and mostly everything was getting power except the ignition coil. I had my wife roll it over a few times while I checked the power at the connections and I wasn't seeing anything. Fuses in MPEM all test good. Is there a better way to test the ignition coil?

Other things that need to be done for overall restoration:
-weedless system- Handle seems to be stuck and grates on bottom are just hanging there. I can see the connecting rod looks rusty and maybe some missing..
-Engine 1 choke line needs to be re-ran
-Bilge Fan needs to be riveted into the correct spot
-Fix gas gauge meter. It appears full of gas when the tank is visibly low

 

[justinsrad98]

I hope it’s not the mpem. They are quite expensive depending on the year.

 

[Huntz52]

I hope it’s not the mpem. They are quite expensive depending on the year.

Yea, that wouldn't be good. How do I test the MPEM to see if its functioning correctly? Or is there an indicator on the boat similar to the 2 beeps I get when plugging in the DESS key?

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

My from the hip suspicion is the CDI ignition has failed, it's not often people report on a single failed ignition coil, especially two or four of them. I've been waiting for someone to bravely melt away the potting material of the MPEM circuit board and repair the likely poor solder joints or perhaps replace the CDI capacitors.

Perhaps if your ignition coils are full of water, then maybe....

Or, go find a couple of jet ski MPEM's and hack them in? Someone mentioned aftermarket CDI once or twice, I'm not sure about the detail or why we don't have the info "floating around" (a nautical term).

 

[Huntz52]

My from the hip suspicion is the CDI ignition has failed, it's not often people report on a single failed ignition coil, especially two or four of them. I've been waiting for someone to bravely melt away the potting material of the MPEM circuit board and repair the likely poor solder joints or perhaps replace the CDI capacitors.

Perhaps if your ignition coils are full of water, then maybe....

Or, go find a couple of jet ski MPEM's and hack them in? Someone mentioned aftermarket CDI once or twice, I'm not sure about the detail or why we don't have the info "floating around" (a nautical term).

I'm hoping its not, but if its as easy as removing the MPEM and sending it in to get repaired and it solves the spark problems, I'll be a happy camper... Each cylinder on the engine compressed at 130psi so I'm thinking an engine rebuild is in order after I know I can at least get them running. this is the link I just found for MPEM sales
SeaDoo MPEM ECU LCD for Sale Repair Test Program

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

130psi isn't the end of the world necessarily, it it makes good power without hesitation (a sign of carburetor issues leading to meltdown) the inconvenience of an oil flooded crankcase from leaking crank seals is pretty inconvenient though.

How confident are you of the compression gauge? It's surprising how often a new compression gauge is found to be pretty far out of calibration.

 

[JeremyD615]

That link is to Westside Powersports. They are absolutely your best bet as far as repair or replacement of the MPEM goes...

 

[Huntz52]

Could I be missing a step while trying to start my boat? I've only owned it for about 3 weeks and assume its as easy as putting the DESS key on the DESS post, hearing the two beeps and its good to start... also making sure the gas is turned on.

 

[Huntz52]

That link is to Westside Powersports. They are absolutely your best bet as far as repair or replacement of the MPEM goes...

Thanks! I just talked to Nick over there and he was really nice and gave me some stuff to check before I drop the cash on a conversion which sounds like the better way to go. He asked me to make sure my white wires aren't mixed up. which makes since because the PO didn't seem to be all there and could had easily tried to troubleshoot the issue and mixed something up.

 

[JeremyD615]

Nick will get you straightened out. He’s one of the best resources we’ve got for the older two stroke boats and skis.

 

[Huntz52]

130psi isn't the end of the world necessarily, it it makes good power without hesitation (a sign of carburetor issues leading to meltdown) the inconvenience of an oil flooded crankcase from leaking crank seals is pretty inconvenient though.

How confident are you of the compression gauge? It's surprising how often a new compression gauge is found to be pretty far out of calibration.

The gauge was new from advanced auto parts so I’m hoping it was giving me some accurate numbers. One of the cylinders on the engine the PO said needed work registered closer to 150 which I imagine is the number range I want to be around.. odd it’s on the engine that needs work

 

[JeremyD615]

As far as actually running, the difference between cylinders is the biggest problem. With that said, at 130 psi on the good motor, you’re probably looking at a rebuild on both engines before long...

 

[Huntz52]

As far as actually running, the difference between cylinders is the biggest problem. With that said, at 130 psi on the good motor, you’re probably looking at a rebuild on both engines before long...

I agree! In all honesty, I purchased the boat because the owner said it needed work which may give me a chance to do a rebuild project after seeing the engines don’t look too difficult to rebuild. I’m still trying to stumble across a good write up from taking the engine out of the boat to fully rebuilding the engine. I was pretty surprised to see the psi was even at 130

 

[mikidymac]

It will run fine at 130, 120 and below you will have hard starting in the water and it’s done.

 

[Huntz52]

Alright so a little update on the spark issue..... The Previous owner had the white wires on the ignition coil reversed! After Nick at Westside powersports had suggested I check that first, I went home and tossed the igniter wire tester to the left engine wires and test started the right engine and got the flickering light.. Still need to test the other direction but I have high hopes it will do the same. Since it was my first time starting the boat since I purchased it I grabbed my fire extinguisher and grabbed my wife so we have two sets of eyes on everything and cranked over the supposed better engine and she started right up. I turned it off after a couple of seconds and started it a few more times after that just to listen to see if I can hear anything out of the norm. I'm going to pull the boat out of the garage today and start it with water hooked up this time so I can let it idle for longer. So here are some questions:
-How long can I let it idle with just a hose hook up?
-Can I give it some RPM's while hooked up to the hose?
-What are some things I should listen for? or can expect?
-Lubing anything between the impeller and drive shaft? more or less for regular maintenance..

If the other engine starts, my goal this weekend is to take it to the water and run it close to the dock to get an idea of how its running and things I'll need to work on.

 

[JeremyD615]

To be honest, I almost never run any of mine on the hose. Even with the hose connected, you are still not cooling the carbon seals, and I believe the manual says to run it no more than 3-5 minutes. I will generally start the motors, and let them run dry for no more than about a minute. You can tell very little from running the engines on the trailer anyway, so run it long enough to do your initial idle adjustment and prime the oil lines and then wait until you can get it to the ramp to run it any longer.

 

[JeremyD615]

Oh, and you can blip the throttle a bit, but I wouldn’t hold it open for any real length of time. These things will bounce off the limited pretty quick with no load on them.

The only lubrication point is the grease nipple on the PTO. You just want to put enough grease in that you see the boot start to move and no more. It should only take a pump or two for that to happen.

 

[Huntz52]

Oh, and you can blip the throttle a bit, but I wouldn’t hold it open for any real length of time. These things will bounce off the limited pretty quick with no load on them.

The only lubrication point is the grease nipple on the PTO. You just want to put enough grease in that you see the boot start to move and no more. It should only take a pump or two for that to happen.

Thank you jeremyD!

 

[Huntz52]

I ran the right engine for about a minute to get the fluid moving. The left engine seems to become flooded with a lot of oil... what should I check? I took the spark plugs out was turning the motor to see if m

 

[JeremyD615]

That my friend is leaking inner crank seals! There is no simple fix for that, although occasionally if you can get it running, the seals will swell up enough to get another season or two out of it. When the engine is sitting, it is letting oil leak past the seals and fill the crankcase. Since those seals are pressed on from the factory, there is really no repairing it without buying a rebuilt crank, at least not for most workshop mechanics... I’d spin it over with the plugs out until it clears up and then try to start it. You might get lucky and have it seal up well enough to get you through the summer if you don’t let it sit too long between trips to the lake...

 

[mikidymac]

A couple things....

1. You are running the wrong oil and that has in the past caused the crank seal leaks and a very few members have had the crank seals stop leaking after flushing and switching to the correct API-TC oil.
2. That is an SBT engine which are not known for their quality parts and reliability.
3. IF it only fills with oil after sitting a few days you can install a ball valve on the crankcase oil lines and limp it along for a few more years but you have to remember to ALWAYS open and close the valve.

 

[JeremyD615]

A couple things....

1. You are running the wrong oil and that has in the past caused the crank seal leaks and a very few members have had the crank seals stop leaking after flushing and switching to the correct API-TC oil.
2. That is an SBT engine which are not known for their quality parts and reliability.
3. IF it only fills with oil after sitting a few days you can install a ball valve on the crankcase oil lines and limp it along for a few more years but you have to remember to ALWAYS open and close the valve.

How could you tell it is an SBT rebuild? The overheat sticker on the head? I’ve heard several other guys use those as well, but SBT’s the only one I know for sure...

 

[mikidymac]

How could you tell it is an SBT rebuild? The overheat sticker on the head? I’ve heard several other guys use those as well, but SBT’s the only one I know for sure...

The silver color and the overheat sticker, yes.

 

[Huntz52]

That my friend is leaking inner crank seals! There is no simple fix for that, although occasionally if you can get it running, the seals will swell up enough to get another season or two out of it. When the engine is sitting, it is letting oil leak past the seals and fill the crankcase. Since those seals are pressed on from the factory, there is really no repairing it without buying a rebuilt crank, at least not for most workshop mechanics... I’d spin it over with the plugs out until it clears up and then try to start it. You might get lucky and have it seal up well enough to get you through the summer if you don’t let it sit too long between trips to the lake...

Okay sounds good. If I can’t seem to get it started then I’ll plan on pulling the engine and getting a new crank in there.

 

[Huntz52]

A couple things....

1. You are running the wrong oil and that has in the past caused the crank seal leaks and a very few members have had the crank seals stop leaking after flushing and switching to the correct API-TC oil.
2. That is an SBT engine which are not known for their quality parts and reliability.
3. IF it only fills with oil after sitting a few days you can install a ball valve on the crankcase oil lines and limp it along for a few more years but you have to remember to ALWAYS open and close the valve.

I was wondering about the oil and if the PO was using the correct oil. I’ll flush it. Is just siphoning out the oil tank good or is more needed? I’ll go today and get some good oil. It’s amsoil 2 stroke full synthetic that’s recommended?

Thank you again for the help!

I’ll have to pull the engine and just get a new crank and replace the gaskets while I’m at it. How tough is it to pull the engine if I have a hoist?

I’ve heard of SBT in other threads. I’ll avoid them. But it’s interesting to know what the past owners have done to the boat.