01 challenger dies at wot

[bubbagump]

2001 Challenger 1800 240 EFI. Hey all. I ran into a problem over the 4th of July weekend. I purchased the boat used about 2 weeks ago. The boat ran very well on my test drive, and ran fine a couple times since until over the weekend. I was running the boat at wot and the boat just suddenly died like I pulled the lanyard. I couldn't get it to fire back up. All electronics worked and I was getting the proper "start beep." The starter would pop up and hit the flywheel but wouldn't kick the engine over. After getting towed back to the area near the boat launch I figured I would give it one more try (about 25-30 minutes later). Fired right up, and as I gave it throttle to get to the launch, it died again. Seemed to do ok in idle until I throttled up a bit. :ack:

This problem seems to be the exact definition of a bad or stuck anti-siphon valve. Problem is, the previous owner had it "replaced" but with my examining they did not put one in. They just replaced the hoses and didn't install new one.

After calling mercury, they told me that it may be bad gas. I guess my question is, can bad gas cause me to die at wot? and what else can anyone suggest it may be?

Prior to this happening, I replaced all the plugs, the water separating filter, the inline fuel filter, and the baffle assembly filter. Any help would be great. Thanks

 

[bubbagump]

anyone have any ideas on what to check?

 

[rookie101]

Bad Gas????

This definitely does not sound like bad gas. From reading your post it sounds more like an electrical problem if it would not turn over. Have a good look at all the connections.

Aaron:cheers:

 

[bubbagump]

looks ok

Thanks for the reply. All the connections look good and tight and theres no corrosion on anything. Seadoo recommended maybe the needle in the water separator? I drained it and it seems to be the correct amount (shop guy said he was working on one as we spoke, but from what he says it sounds ok). I'd rather not take it in if I can fix myself. Anything specific in the electrical I should maybe check? It did fire up again a half hour later until it died again, would it even fire unless the electric was ok? Thanks!

 

[rookie101]

It's the fact that it would not turn over that makes me think it's electrical.

The needle in the vapor separator is a common problem, as well as the low pressure fuel pumps and fuel filter. They would explain the engine dyeing at full throttle, but not the refusal to turn over. Did it really not turn over, or did it just not fire?

Aaron:cheers:

 

[bubbagump]

Forgive me for possibly sounding dumb here, but when I turned the key to on, it made the starting beep like it was ready to go, turn the key and the starter spun and hits the flywheel, but the engine didnt start up. Tried multiple times with same results. After getting towed near the boat launch, gave it one last try, and it fired right up. Gave it a little throttle and boat died in the same fashion as before. I'm thinking its gotta be fuel related, but then again I don't know very much. Thanks for helping, it is appreciated!

 

[bubbagump]

might be important...

Sorry, I also forgot to add that I took the boat with me to work the next day, and it started up with no problems at least 10 times hooked up to the hose. Maybe I should have added that from the beginning....:stupid:

 

[boeing747arowair]

check your plugs . i had somewhat of aa similar problem and that was it along with a dirty air filter to the compressor and nasty throttle body

 

[bubbagump]

ok, ill give that a try. Thanks for the input!

 

[bubbagump]

stupid question

Sorry for my lack of knowledge, but where exactly is the air filter? I can't seem to find it, sorry for the dumb question

 

[boeing747arowair]

IM not sure if the 240 has it buut my 250 has it on the black engine cover starboard side. You'll see a hose run into the black front engine cover

 

[seadoodude1]

Did you find the problem. Mine occasionally dies at speed but will always start right back up. I'm still trying to determine the cause.

 

[bubbagump]

same problem

Took it out this weekend and had the same problem. Idled fine and worked fine up until about 3000 rpm, after which it died and wouldnt restart for only 15 minutes this time. Once started, I kept my rpms at 3000 and it got me where I was going fine. I am completely lost now. yay.....

 

[rookie101]

OK, what have you done for checks so far? When it dies have you checked for spark? You could have a couple of problems.

We'll start by checking the fuel system. Your engine has a high pressure side and a low pressure side to the fuel system. The low pressure side (2-9psi) keeps the High pressure fuel pump (located in the vapor separator) supplied with the fuel that it then in turn supplies high pressure fuel (32-36psi) to the fuel rail and injectors. It sounds like you may have a low pressure problem, and the high pressure pump is draining the vapor separator at high rpm.

Here is a quick break down of what you need to look for. The electric lift pump draws fuel from the tank and supplies it to the pulse pump at 4-7 psi. From the the engine driven pulse pump sends fuel to the fuel/water separating filter at2-3 psi. Fuel travels through the filter and into the vapor separator through a needle valve controlled by a float (just like a carb).

On land you can check for the necessary pressures from the two low pressure pumps. If they seem fine pull the drain plug from the bottom of the vapor separator and get an idea of how much fuel it holds. Now put the plug back in and crank the engine for thirty seconds or so. Pull the plug again and compare the amount of fuel. It should be fairly close. If all seems OK take the boat out on the water and stick close to shore. get the boat to act up and immediately turn the key off. Recheck the amount of fuel in the vapor separator. if it is empty or low and the pumps seem OK the needle may be sticking. You need to remove the vapor separator and disassemble it in order to replace the needle.

If that all checks out and you have spark when it will not start your rubber exhaust hoses may be deteriorating inside and causing a restriction. Pull them off and have a look at the inside walls for blistering.

If you're still having problems let me know and we can work in another direction.

Aaron:cheers:

 

[johnhibbs]

Max of 3000 rpm sounds like the problem I had

I recently had a problem with my Challenger 2000 240EFI M2. I tried everything on the engine then discovered that the wet exhaust hose was delamintated on the inside and was causing an exhaust blockage. I could always start the boat and it would run fine up to about 3000 rpm but no more. Does the exhaust hoses feel soft at the bend near the muffler? The exhaust hose should be very stiff. Unfortunately you have to remove the hose and look inside to be sure it's not delaminated. Seadoo had a recall because of these hoses and has a new design now. You may have to cut a slit in the hose at the engine end to get it off because it is probably melted on. I'm on a mission to tell everyone about this problem. The delaminated hose looks like the one on the left when you open it up.

 

[Tara123]

Our wear ring damage caused our boat to have these same symptoms...died at WOT wouldnt start - we figured a piece was stuck

at least I HOPE thats all it was

 

[bubbagump]

worst possible news....

Well finally took it to the shop and I got wonderful news. 30 compression on one cylinder and another one was disintigrated. They want to charge $7000 to replace, so I of course laughed at them. My new question is, I found this while cruisin ebay, and I guess I am wondering if someone can check it out and let me know if this would be all i would need to have someone replace my powerhead? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260419412469&viewitem= I am not sure if this is everything that I would need. Thanks for any input.

 

[rookie101]

As long as the crankshaft and block are in good shape that kit should work for you. Before you went ahead and ordered it though you should pull your engine apart and inspect everything and check the bore on the cylinders so you know what size pistons to order.

Aaron:cheers:

 

[seadoodude1]

It sounds like you are having someone else rebuild your motor with that parts kit. That is assuming everything else is a ok. Unless you are planning to do the work yourself and have all the required tools, that can get quite expensive. It may be better to get a rebuilt powerhead with a warantee that you can swap out. Have you checked out the prices of rebuilts at crowleymarine.com?

 

[northernlakesmarine]

dID YOU EVER FIND OUT THE ISSUE?

 

[bubbagump]

yes. the issue was needed to replace the powerhead. with the price of labor, it was "cheaper" to just replace the powerhead rather than pull it and rebore and yadda yadda. they couldn't give me a definitive as to why the problem occured with the disintegrated piston. I always babied it since i had it, so unsure of why it happened. Taking my time breaking it in properly and making sure its drinking oil properly. I would hate to not blame anyone because it could have been freak, but I'm assuming the previous owner knew about it and used a cheap quick fix to sell it. Ran fine on my test run and didn't do a comp test (my fault). Beware of buying and do a compression check for sure is all i can recommend.