“First Post” XP water intrusion and more

[Dman142]

First post. Hello, Darin here from the northwoods of Wisconsin. I’ve been working on dirt bikes, ATV, sleds, and a lot of outboard motors over the years. I’m most familiar with the Outboard’s as I sell those out of my garage as a hobby. This ski is the first I’ve ever had.

We recently got a 96 Xp for $500 with the trailer. Owner thought there was a rock stuck in the impeller because it wouldn’t turn over. Turned Out to be a dead battery!! It runs about 52 mph, so the wear ring might be worn, but that’s not the issue. Compression is 145-147. Doesn’t appear the motor has ever been opened. It’s in fairly good shape given its age. Shined up nicely.

My 10 year old has been ripping around on it a lot. He’s a phenomenal pilot. He’s able to dig the nose in and keep burying it deeper and deep to the point that a wall of water is coming Over the handlebars. Front of the ski is a couple feet down in the water. I’m not bragging or being the “my kid is the greatest ever” but just to you how water is coming in. That is how deep he can get it to dig. He’s kind of an in control maniac. There in lies the problem.

After his exhibition, so much water has gotten inside the engine compartment. So much water that I installed a bilge pump and switch. After each run, there’s about 3-4 gallons of water inside. Sometimes it gets to the intake and fouls a plug or won’t run right. Pump it out, change a plug, and do it again. Actually today, I could not getting it to run right at all. Needed choke most of the time to run.

I’ve sealed the seat gap up in the front, I’ve taped over the vent lines up front, and taped off half of the side intake vents also. It’s coming through the side intakes. Thats the largest opening and a lot of water is getting in.

I’m looking for advise on how to get it somewhat sealed as it’s becoming a problem the harder he rides. Are there aftermarket vents that could be added? I’m thinking maybe vents on the rear of the ski would be the least susceptible to water intrusion. But hey, what do I know? Not much.

I’ve also got a carb kit on the way has it seems to have a bog off idle that I can’t get out. I can take down the intake in record time, even at the boat launch, adjust the LSA to one turn, etc. Right now, they run best at 1/2 turn out but can’t even start without the choke. Get it off of idle and she’s a great runner. A little
boggy in the mid-range but just for 1/2 second or so. I’ve read the post on carb cleaning and followed all the steps to a T, all except pop off pressure. I need to make me one of those.

Sorry to be long winded. I’ve done hours and hours of research learning how these work. A bit overwhelming at first but things are falling into place.
Let me know what you think.

 

[GGuillot]

You can add an auto bilge, I've got it on both of my skis. It'll ck for water every couple minutes and pump it out, all you do is ride and it'll work on it's own. Otherwise, the ski isn't made to dive in the water like a submarine and he'll need to back off doing so if you can't keep the water out.

On the carbs, use only genuine oem kits, otherwise you'll create more problems. Be through when you rebuild them, use everything in the kits, ck the pop off psi (critical step), set the needles to stock and go see how it runs. Usually a good practice while you're at it is to change the fuel lines, oil injection lines, the fuel selector, and the oring in the fuel strainer.

BTW - easy to make the pop off tester, you can buy it pre made from vendors like OSD Marine or piece mill it from parts, gauge, shrader valve, T fitting, etc. Either way runs about $20 or so.

 

[Dman142]

Could you attach a quick pic of the pop off tester. I probably have the parts here at home anyways and could slap one together. I’m sure there’s something on google imagines though.

I took all the advice and got the Mikuni kit for the carbs. Pertaining to the bilge, I went with a switch because of how the water probably sloshes around I think it would be on and off all the time but rarely on long enough to get it drained. The little pod thingy—autobilge, doesn’t seem to work anyways. And yes, they are clean of grease and oil. The whole engine compartment is all cleaned up.

Does the intake have to be a forced air based on speed land air in through the sides, or can any other venting work? I’m thinking something like frogs skin vents like on snowmobiles. Let air in but repels water. Works with snow and ice. Slap a couple on the rear and seal up the front vents?

 

[GGuillot]

The little pod thingy—autobilge, doesn’t seem to work anyways.

What do you mean it doesn't work? It works, I've got it on both of my skis for piece of mind...the Rule 25S in either auto mode or manual mode works perfectly. In auto mode it runs for a second or two every couple minutes to ck for water, if there's water it pumps it out. On my skis I flip a switch at the launch and forget about it. I also have manual override button in an unused spot on the info center to the left of the mode/set buttons. On my 96' GSX I connected a small voltage/amp gauge to let me know voltage on the ski, and the amperage part is wired on the bilge pump, if it bumps off 0.00 I know the pump is on. In auto mode I will occasionally see a quick .60 to .70 amperage flash to let me know the pump is cking for water.

 

[Dman142]

I should have been more clear—the siphon that is supposed to suck out the water through the little pods at the bottom of the hull. Not called an autobilge I suppose but supposed to work when going fast they say.

I am not certain how to react to the post above. Maybe me being a new comer, that type of post is the punishment I get. Maybe a sort of hazing. I don’t know. I surely don’t know you and you. Sure doesn’t give a warm fuzzy feeling to join a place like this. Typical however on power sports sites that I belong to.

Seems as if a 10 year old can ride hard enough to cause issues, maybe it’s a poor design. I probably shouldn’t ride it then. Sorry for wanting a jetski to stay afloat while riding. Maybe jet skiing not for us, at least a 96 model.

Ps—while searching it seems as if others have put FloRite pods in from the snowmobile world to help stop water from coming in. So overall, I’m not really too far of in SpaceX land am I?
Plus I’m fairly well versed in how the motor works. I’m not used to them sucking in water and trying to burn it. Thanks for the heads up though.

 

[AKnarrowback]

You can't dive the nose under and not get water in. I would suggest not doing that for extended periods or you will fill the hull, suck water into the motor and damage things.

With that being said I can tell you what I did with my 94 XP.

I taped over all stock air intakes, nose vents by the hatch hinges and seat intakes. I removed my gas gauge and drilled an extra 1.5 inch hole in my dash between the tach and the gas gauge hole. I drilled a series of one inch holes in the removable panel on the bottom of my hood as well as a series of 1 inch holes along the rear upper edge of my removable cargo bin. All my intake air for the motor goes in through the highest point on the machine, the only water that gets in the hull is from any seat, cargo hatch seals that are not 100% water proof. I used to be able to fill my hull in a minute by diving the nose under, it doesn't swamp my machine to stunt around anymore. The trade off is a little cosmetic ugliness from the drivers point of view, but I go by the "make it practical" philosophy. What good is a DOO that swamps itself with such a simple maneuver...

The design of the machine is excellent, it has one fault that can be overcome in many ways. A bilge pump is an excellent way to go. I just used my idea since my gas gauge was dead and I simply don't need one.

 

[Dman142]

Excellent. Someone who has addressed this issue with success. By your description, I can visualize what you did. I’ll probably start in on it today. It seems as if it doesn’t have to go through the stock intakes so that’s nice. Just get some sort of air to enter.

I was mistaken that the stock seals are not actually waterproof. That’s how this all began. Silly me to think seals do not not actually seal up the the rig from water entering.
We also have a Yammy gp800r that doesn’t get hardly any water in it, no matter how deep it dives.

 

[GGuillot]

Seems as if a 10 year old can ride hard enough to cause issues, maybe it’s a poor design.

There's no state in the U.S. that anyone can legally operate a PWC under the age of 12.

Nobody is trying to haze you, it's just not very common to ask how to keep water out of a ski that a 10 yr old child is nose diving underwater. I have a hard enough time getting my 19 yr old to understand limits when he rides, for me it would be out of the question to let a 10 yr old solo ride a jet ski that's capable of reaching mid 50's on the water. But that's your decision...not my child..

 

[Dman142]

Thank you for the concern. He might not be gifted when it comes to book work but picks up sports easy and power sports since he was 2.5 years old. We ride on a pond of sorts back in the woods of a farmer buddy of ours. Can’t be deemed a lake but a private pond I suppose. We take the boats to the big lakes

I’ve probably done a lot of things with him that most parents would deem as crazy. My wife can attest to that. To date, several years ago, he clobbered a 6”x6” front porch post with his Indy 340 sled. Shook him up a bit but got over it. Slowed him down a bit.

But enough of that. I’m busy getting the fuel lines changed and designing a better intake system and sealing up leaks. I’ll get a design down, I’ll post a pic. Any additional suggestions are appreciated.

 

[POPPS]

I think you should get your son a standup ski,,,and set it up for freestyle,,,they do subs all day long,,,that would appear to be right up his alley,,
No...this is not a hazing,,,no one has EVER been hazed on here, the moderator would not allow it,,,all the contributors on here are knowledgeable, experienced, and like to help people solve problems, to save them from having to take their ski to a dealer,
There are no 100% waterproof watercraft on the planet,,,with exception to the modified standup freestyle machines as I mentioned earlier,
Under normal circumstances, the pump driven vacuum bilge works great,,,although now seadoo puts them at the back of the ski where all the water rushes to.

 

[mikidymac]

So, to answer your original problem, there is really no problem.
Your son is doing something that should not be done with these skis and the easy solution is to have him stop doing it. These skis have air intakes so that fresh air can get into the hull and provide the engine with air/oxygen to allow combustion. These skis were never intended to be submerged as he is doing so these "air intake" are going under the water level and letting water in. If you try to cover them up or block them you are going to starve the engine of oxygen. You can add more electric bilge pumps but in reality they will not be able to handle the large amounts of water flooding in when the ski is submerged fast enough to keep the engine from ingesting the water. This water ingestion will quickly destroy the engine by washing the oil film off the cylinders and bearings.

The easy fix is some fatherly advice like... I know it is fun to sub the ski but it isn't good for it and you are going to break it. So basically stop doing that.

 

[Dman142]

I was able to get most of the water to stay out of the engine compartment using weather stripping and some filter materiel to keep the water out. Can dive reasonably well but still having issues.

I was very frustrated and just bought a bolt on set of carbs as my rebuild skills are not up to the task as I failed using a new Mikuni rebuild kit. The new set of carbs cleaned up some low end issues and idling. Starts better and will run to WOT, but then it seems as if the kill switch is pressed. That’s on a different thread.

Adjusted the low speed to 1.5 turns and have the high speed full in. Coming out of a tight turn, it’ll start to bog and will kill most of the time if pushed hard enough. Comes to a stop, and starts right up. I’m thinking it’s more of an adjustment issue vs something actually wrong with the carbs. The high speed stop has the plastic cover over the screws. The set of carbs came from a running ski with no apparent issues.
Any input would be appreciated for this rookie.

 

[POPPS]

I doubt it's your carbs behaving as if you have pulled the kill switch.,,I would check all your connections starting at the battery.,,,a poor connection could cause some of your symptoms.

 

[Dman142]

I wired in tether switch in place of the red button switch. I’ll check that fix today. Hopefully that will be the cure.

Now on to the carbs. I have 3 sets something should work.

 

[GGuillot]

Can dive reasonably well but still having issues.

You don't need a Seadoo, you need a Dolphin Ski... https://www.thisiswhyimbroke.com/dolphin-power-boat/

 

[mikidymac]

I wired in tether switch in place of the red button switch. I’ll check that fix today. Hopefully that will be the cure.

Now on to the carbs. I have 3 sets something should work.

Why did you wire in a tether switch? The ski already has a lanyard kill switch.

 

[Dman142]

It was the only switch I had at the moment. It’s not a replacement for the other DESS tether. Basically just using it for the time being for troubleshooting purposes. I have a new switch on order.
It’s a tether that usually goes on an outboard and Just spliced it in. Instead of killing the engine, it starts it now. Works good and going to test shortly.

 

[Dman142]

Had some time today to get it out on the water. My improvised start button worked great. No more unexpected shut downs.

We also tuned The set carbs to eliminate the high rpm bogging. Turned the HS to 1/4 turn out and it ran great on low and high rpms. LS is 1.5 out.
The weather stripping is doing its job and keeping a lot more water out. Some well placed TRex tape is also helping. I also used some fabric vent to repel large droplets of water getting into the engine. Still have to bilge once in Awhile but that’s to be expected for how we ride.
About the only hiccup was fouling a plug for no apparent reason.

 

[Dman142]

Another question. What condition present in my motor that requires the HSA to be a bit out from 0 turns? Did a little more testing and found about 3/8 of a turn out from seated. I think one frustration was reading about the stock settings and trying and trying to get it to run right. The adjustments were made to a running set of carbs so I know they are good.
It does load up a little from a long idle. Just have to get moving to clean it out before giving ‘er.
Top speed is about 52mph, and nearly identical to the Yammy gp800r we are borrowing. The yammy just creeps by the Xp by a mph or 2. Probably needs some pump maintenance but that’s for next year.

 

[GGuillot]

What condition present in my motor that requires the HSA to be a bit out from 0 turns? Did a little more testing and found about 3/8 of a turn out from seated.

There's specs from Seadoo to run both carbs on the 787 motors (yr 1996) at 0 on the HS needle, but you don't need to follow that. In 1997 there was a recommended change to start running the PTO carb 1/2 out because it was discovered it would run hot or lean and could fail. 3/8 out isn't causing much of a WOT rpm loss if any.

On both of my 787 carb skis I run 1/8 to 1/4 out on the HS needles, both carbs, never shut at 0. I don't give up any top speed doing so....and it's piece of mind it shouldn't lean out when sustaining WOT runs.

 

[Dman142]

Things are better and better. Adjusted the HSA to about 1/4 turn out. Got a good boost in power midrange and Top end speed.

I taped over the side intakes completely. Made no difference in engine performance. Also taped off the front holes in front of the storage compartment. No power loss or issues. Can’t figure out where the all the water comes in. I suppose it’s the same area that feeds clean air to the engine.
It appears that everything is in sync and getting better. Heck, I didn’t even take the carbs off today at the launch. Didn’t foul a plug either. Wow! Had a day on the water with no major issues. That’s a first for me.

Did a bit more investigation on how water enters the hull. I took a thin skin of grease on the seal of the seat. Put on the seat to check for areas where the seal isn’t doing it’s job. Wouldn’t ya know,the seal laid down a nice bead of grease on the top of the ski where the seam sits on the hull. If I were to speculate, it might be pulling in clean air at the handlebar stem. More follow up later....

 

[mikidymac]

You could mount a GoPro camera and led light inside to see where the water is coming in.
Also look up Frogzskin, it is a stick on water repellent filter that will let air in but keep the water out.

 

[Dman142]

That’s a good idea. Didn’t think of that. Thanks much. I’ll try it with the hose first:

 

[Dman142]

Not a clue how that format got into my reply box on the last post.

it seems as if there’s no way the water can get it now. It’s all sealed up from the outside, but still has the seat venting open. I’ll have grease up the front seal to check what’s going on there. Also have not ruled out a leak in the pump seals letting water in.