The wondering is killing me. XP Oil injection situation

[JJinSC]

My '97xp had 442 hours on it and the bearings finally let go near the end of last season. I had it torn apart and rebuilt during the off season. I put it in this spring and started the break-in procedure. During the second tank of gas, about 20 minutes into the ride, the oil light came on. I stopped opened the tank and saw the tank was about half full. I said to myself, "I could have sworn I topped that off when I came in after the last ride". I was about 1 mile or two from the dock so I headed straight to the dock. Once at the dock, I opened the hood and looked again, the tank was empty. I immediately towed it to the landing and took it back to the shop. The technician checked it out and said he had been doing this job for a long time and he had never seen this happen before. Apparently, the nipple/fitting that the oil supply line attaches to at the pump just fell out of the pump. I have ordered a new pump and they are putting it on this week.

My worries and the question I am wondering is how long was the engine running without that hose attached and was there any damage done to my newly rebuilt engine? What should I ask the technician to do to check for any damage? The engine sounded fine when I stopped it. No strange sounds. There was surely some oil still left from the first tank of gas which I had mixed 50:1. I filled it back up at 1/4 tank with just gas (no oil). Am I in danger of damage for running the one to two miles back to the dock if that fitting was out then?

I know there is no way of knowing some of these answers from the information given, but the wondering is killing me while having to wait and would love to hear some opinions on this.

 

[Dr Honda]

I'm assuming, since it was a new rebuild... you had a few oz/gal oil in the main fuel tank for break in. That oil is what saved your engine. I would say... yes, there is some damage... but it may not be enough to cause any problems.

IMHO... the guy who did the swap is at fault. He was directly working with that hose, and the pump on the new engine, and he should have been looking for any issues. When I do an engine swap... I change the small hoses, and the filter in the oil system. I also, look for loose, or leaking fittings.

Since you have an 800 engine... I would pop the head off and look for damage. (scars on the cyl walls) If it's an SBT... you can't, because it has a "Void" sticker on the head shell. If that sticker is disturbed, they void the warranty.

 

[JJinSC]

Yeah, As I stated, I had mixed the first tank with a 50:1 mixture per the break-in instructions for oil injection models. I refueled at about 1/3 of the tank, so there was definitely oil in the tank, I just do not know what that mixture would equal out to.

I agree, With that kind of work, removing and disassembling the engine, I would say this problem should be covered with their labor warranty. I will say that from what I have seen and heard, they did a very nice job on this minus the oil injection issue. They did replace the small oil lines as well during the rebuild.

I will take your advice and ask them to pull the head to examine (not SBT). Another question, would a compression check tell us without pulling the head?

 

[Dr Honda]

Another question, would a compression check tell us without pulling the head?

Only if the damage is very bad. Light scars wouldn't show a loss in compression.

 

[JJinSC]

Only if the damage is very bad. Light scars wouldn't show a loss in compression.

If any scarring is found, what would your recommendations be to deal with them? How do you determine if it's damage that will cause problems?

 

[denniski]

I bought a block off plate for the pump after a tech told me that pump causes more motor problems than anything else. 2 Years ago I was getting ready for a trip and noticed the cable to the pump was hanging by one strand! I just mix the xps oil @ 40:1 and and have no worries with that oil issue. I know it's a hassle but is a big piece of mind for me. Ski only had 60 Hrs. at the time

 

[Dr Honda]

If any scarring is found, what would your recommendations be to deal with them? How do you determine if it's damage that will cause problems?

Don't know. It would be (most likely) a legal battle. Since the problem was found on the first ride... it's the shop's problem... but most likely they will say "tough crap", or "Prove it." THEN... you will have to determine if it's worth the time and money to fight it. the 50:1 of good oil really saved the engine.

If possible... post pics of the cyl walls once they get the head off. Heck... if it was a shop build, and there isn't a "Void" sticker on it... pull the head yourself. That engine just has O-rings for a gasket. You can pull it off... snap some pics, and put it back on.

I bought a block off plate for the pump after a tech told me that pump causes more motor problems than anything else. 2 Years ago I was getting ready for a trip and noticed the cable to the pump was hanging by one strand! I just mix the xps oil @ 40:1 and and have no worries with that oil issue. I know it's a hassle but is a big piece of mind for me. Ski only had 60 Hrs. at the time

Pre-mix is a good way to go if you don't trust your pump. BUT... the seadoo (Mikuni) pump is super reliable. The issues are from other problems. Normally from lack of maintenance. Or, in the case above... the nipple was damaged by the mechanic who last worked on it. In your case... if the cable broke (and they do) the spring on the pump arm would have rolled it open to "Full" oil. Your engine would have been safe, but it would have smoked at idle, and you would have fouled a couple spark plugs.

 

[JJinSC]

Thanks Dr. Honda, I may pull those heads off and take a gander. One question regarding that, is there a certain tightness (torque) I should use when putting the heads back on?

 

[Dr Honda]

Head torque is low. It's around 18 Lb/ft torque. (but I will have to double check)

 

[sc_shark]

hi jjinsc... my name is mike and i live in sc as well. charleston/georgetown area i am new to the board and have a xp limited.
sorry to hear about your delima if you need any help or a second set of hands me and my dad have been tinkering with the ski a bit doing some tlc if u ever want to txt/chatt or get together when things are worked out give a hollar (we have a private ramp and live on the waterway) mike 843 602 8954 sorry i cant seem to pm

 

[JJinSC]

I just got the ski back today at lunch. The tech supposed checked it over good and said we were alright. I still may pull the head and check. Anyways, he told me that he currently had a 40:1 premix in the tank. I am not sure how accurate he could be with that since there was already some mixture left from the first tank. 40:1 is a little lean to run with the injectors I thought. The tank is about 3/4 full. Should I top the tank off to richen up the premix?

 

[Dr Honda]

40:1 or 50:1 with the injector will be fine. Just take an extra set of spark plugs with you.

 

[JJinSC]

Cool!!!!! Thanks.

I brought the old injector pump home with me. I'll post pictures later on to show what and how it came out. Are those nipples just press fitted in? That seems like a bad design.

 

[sc_shark]

do u premix in the gas along with the injection system or do you rely solely on the injection system to mix?

 

[JJinSC]

I rely on the injection pump. I just had a new one installed. Running premixed along with oil injection to start with to make sure all is well, break-in and to make sure oil is flowing well with the new pump and all.

 

[sc_shark]

good deal just wanted to make sure i didnt need to premix and use the pump...
i am waiting on my regestration to come back so i can get it out we should get together and get a sc xp meet

 

[JJinSC]

I hope you get the reg soon,sc_shark. A get together would be cool.

 

[sc_shark]

i am shooting for monday/tuesday to get my registration.

 

[JJinSC]

Here are the images of my old oil injector pump. Any ideas on how the nipple is suppose to be retained in the pump? It is not threaded or anything..

 

[hdchevydoo]

I did the same thing with my Pair of 96 XP's and I ran them all of last year with the XPS Oil @ 40:1 as you and I havent had a single problem and both have Great Compression! These injectors have Always worried me & since I had one fail on me years ago on an ol dirt bike, I will NEVER Trust them again. It's not that big of a hastle to Pre-Mix & having the Peace of Mind knowing you have Oil in there is worth the little extra work of mixing! As I have learned here from these knowledgable people, be sure the Rotary Valve is still getting oil! I just left the Oil Tank in place..........