SBT Refurb Impellers

[wabash]

Just wanted to post my experience to let others know. I recently purchased a refurb/exchange impeller from SBT for my 94 GTX. I wanted to stay stock. Originally they told me they didn't have any stock ones they could exchange so I would need to send mine in and they would refurb it and send back. Well and good I thought. They called when they received my original one to tell me they had one ready to go and they would send it out right away. OK. I receive it and it's a different Doo part number than my original stock. Stock is 271000280 15/21 pitch. They sent me a 271000400 which crosses to the right engine on a 94 Speedster. So I promptly call their customer service and got the following responses in this order:

First Call/First Cust Serv Rep:
1. The impeller is the same, Sea Doo has just changed the part number. I call BS since I have the impeller chart in front of me.
2. Their system shows that a 280 and 400 are the same. I go on to explain they are not and that the pitch is what's different and pitch is everything. I wanted stock pitch it works well.
3. The rep got a technician on the phone who said it would perform better than my stock impeller, the different pitch would help pull tubers better. Again I call BS, I've been running my two GTX's for quite some time with stock impellers, pulling tubers just fine. I want stock pitch!

See that I'm getting no where I say goodbye and call back to talk to someone higher up. I get the other cust. service rep. and get the following responses:

1. Took down my info and said they would check into what's going on
2. Called me back within 10 mins and said the impeller had been re-pitched to match the 280 pitch and that I have a 400 with a 15/21 pitch (stock pitch on the 400 is supposedly 14/18)
3. OK so I explain to the person that I'm still skeptical being that I have no way to measure pitch and confirm and that I don't really want to install it to find out and then have an installed impeller that I can't exchange, I just want the correct part number which I know they have because they have my old one.
4. they tell me that they do have a 280 in stock ready to go and that I could return the 400 for an exchange it but I would need to cover shipping back to them, but rest assured the pitch on the one I received has been changed to match the 15/21 the 280 has.
5. So I argue with the person about shipping and that I didn't trust what they are telling me after getting conflicting stories and they would not budge. If I wanted a 280 I would have to pay for shipping and I would need to do it ASAP or they couldn't guarantee me they would still have a 280 to send me.

So at this point I'm pretty steamed. So I tell them I will try to confirm the pitch of the one they sent and if it's wrong I expect them to pick up the shipping cost.

Lo and behold I found a couple templates on line to measure impeller pitch. They are paper printable. Both templates tell me I have a 15/21 pitch impeller. Def not a 14/18. So I'm a little happier now.

But here are my issues:
1. Why is SBT re-pitching impellers and not IDing them as such or at least sending me a certificate stating it has been re-pitched. The next guy that tears into my pump if it isn't me will find a 271000400 and wonder what the heck? Not knowing it's been re-pitched. This is sloppy at best.
2. Why didn't SBT tell me this up front OR offer to refurb my impeller and send it back?
3. Why didn't the first rep and tech tell me the same story as the second? The first two people I talked to, a tech of all people were clueless and were telling me false information.

This is the second time I've been disappointed by SBT because of a seemingly minor detail that made me uncomfortable. The first was a set of pistons I got from them that use retaining rings instead of piston pin C clips for the pins. Sure they work if you make sure and install them correctly. Why not just use c clips like everyone else? Seems cheap to me. Just like this impeller, seems sloppy and cheap.

The impeller looks to be done well, and after all is the correct pitch. But after the experience I'm just not too sure about SBT. If they are this sloppy with details like these what else are they sloppy with? I will def not be ordering engine parts from them again, for sure not a crank or a reman engine if I ever need it.

NOTE: I would have gone with Impros but SBT had a nice easy on line ordering process and one price covers all for impeller refurb whereas Impros is a little confusing as to what level you need and they didn't respond to my inquiry for a day or so. However had I known what I was up against with SBT I would have waited it out with Impros.

So word to Impros, improve your website a little for impeller refurb.

Word to SBT, get your crap together. Know your product better. Provide better assurance to your customers that we are getting what we pay for. and don't argue with your customer over shipping. Suck it up and cover it.

 

[mikidymac]

I for one would also question their methods and products. First and foremost is if they are repitching impellers and not changing any markings or part numbers then how do they even know what they are putting in the box?
I think you have every right to be upset with them as obviously they are not standing by their work saying you have to pay to ship back a clearly mismarked impeller that they sent.

As far as the flat piston clips my opinion is they are junk as well and far and away inferior to the standard wire piston pin clips. I would never put them in any of my machines.

Impros: save your time and money it took them 3 times to get my impeller correct an I know at least one other well respected member here has had multiple issues with them.

Skat-Trak: I can't praise them enough as they always answer the phone ant the refurbish your actual impeller and they look better than new. I am in California just like them and the last impeller i sent I called ahead and asked how quickly they could get it done at 8:00 am on a Monday. I spoke directly with the tech and he said to call him as soon as my tracking said it arrived. I called at 10:00 am on Tuesday and he put me on hold as he walked out to shipping and receiving, came back on and gave me the pride to fix it $70. By 9am on Wednesday I had my better than new impeller in my hands.

 

[wabash]

I for one would also question their methods and products. First and foremost is if they are repitching impellers and not changing any markings or part numbers then how do they even know what they are putting in the box?
I think you have every right to be upset with them as obviously they are not standing by their work saying you have to pay to ship back a clearly mismarked impeller that they sent.

As far as the flat piston clips my opinion is they are junk as well and far and away inferior to the standard wire piston pin clips. I would never put them in any of my machines.

Impros: save your time and money it took them 3 times to get my impeller correct an I know at least one other well respected member here has had multiple issues with them.

Skat-Trak: I can't praise them enough as they always answer the phone ant the refurbish your actual impeller and they look better than new. I am in California just like them and the last impeller i sent I called ahead and asked how quickly they could get it done at 8:00 am on a Monday. I spoke directly with the tech and he said to call him as soon as my tracking said it arrived. I called at 10:00 am on Tuesday and he put me on hold as he walked out to shipping and receiving, came back on and gave me the pride to fix it $70. By 9am on Wednesday I had my better than new impeller in my hands.

That's good to know Mikidy. This is the first impeller I've done so no experience with rebuilders. Didn't know Skat did refurb. Doubt I'll need it anytime soon but if I do thanks for the info. On the pistonn clips yes they make me nervous. Before I put them in I researched it and Mr O'Neil said he didn't like them but had never seen an issue as long as they were installed correctly ( gap up or down never to the side). So rather than spend more time and money I went with them. So far so good. This forum will be the first to know if I have issue.

 

[racerxxx]

Just read this thread, sorry for the misfortune. I looked into an impeller from them before and called and got some sketchy info and wasn't hip to all the shipping charges. I moved on and bought a used one.

I can't stress enough to people------pick up the phone and call places and ask questions talk to a human. We're so numb to online ordering anymore and people get pissed when they didn't get what they ordered or THOUGHT they ordered because what's in their mind and the sellers description aren't the same. Your mind was correct, their description/part # was wrong. Call, it's easy, if you get an uneasy feeling move on.

I'm not trying to rip on you, I really think they should have not given you the run around like they did.

 

[wfo speedracer]

I have bought a few impellers from them and they worked out fine, they were not for Seadoos though, Seadoo has some really bad habits of changing pitches for different years of the same ski, using weird part numbers, using impellers pitched specifically for one ski etc.

The impeller that came off of a GSX limited for example will most likely work just fine on a GTX limited it will be a different part number and different pitch though.

I am not sticking up for SBT I am just stating the facts and in this case dealing with Seadoo impellers I would not want to be standing in their shoes.

 

[MPower]

I do all my own work on my skis and in 20 years have never once needed to use SBT. I would just avoid them completely, their reputation precedes them.

I take that back, I have dealt with SBT before. They paid me $50 for the snapped crank out of my GP1200R. Literally, the crank snapped in half at the front journal (it did have 200 hours on it with heavy mods). Some poor sucker paid good money for a GP1200R refurb crank with parts from my 200 hour beat to hell crank. That sums up SBT.

 

[wabash]

I definitely know not to use their motors but like you I do all my own work so I rebuild my own motors. I have avoided SBT myself but in the case of the pistons they came to me as part of a package and when I researched them experts on here said they were fine. I did a small amount of forum research on impellers and came up with SBT or Impros. Impros didn't respond to my inquiry so SBT got my business. But this is the last time. The SBT impeller looks great it is pitched correctly for my GTX they repitched a different impeller to match the pitch of the stock GTX impeller. Which I guess is fine. The issue I have is that they didn't forewarn me in any way either by marking the impeller or by paper that this was done. And now I have an impeller that has a different pitch than the part number that's stamped on it so if someone unsuspecting gets a hold of this impeller someday they will be in for a ride. I guess now the lesson is knowing that re pitching is a thing we all need to look out for re pitched impellers. You buy a Sea-Doo part number such and such off eBay and you may be in for a surprise. I downloaded some pitch templates that I used to verify this impeller. I'll post them up here later.

 

[bell99man]

The thing about pitch is it's only part of all the geometry that goes into a prop or impeller. Diameter of the center factors in, length of individual blades, surface area of the blade, number of blades, pitch at the front and pitch in the rear(most are progressive) and curve or taper of the round edge of the blade if it has that. So re pitching one should be a real pain in the rear to do in order to match a differently designed prop. I would want to receive what I sent so I know now to send mine to Skat.

 

[wfo speedracer]

I guess it all depends on your situation, if you want the best and you have the time to wait then send it to Skat Trak,on my personal ski I would probably just buy a new Solas or Skat Trak, but in my case where I am dealing with cheap ass customers who want their skis back on the water right now SBT has been a good resource to get them back on the water and the price on my end being an SBT dealer is unbeatable.

The reality is not everyone want the best parts on their ski, most here just want to get out as cheaply as possible , for it be reliable, and get it back within a reasonable time frame, it's kind hard to screw up reliability on a stainless steel impeller.

 

[mikidymac]

Don't forget about location too. For me in California shipping from SBT on anything is just nonsense. The last impeller I needed for a friend ASAP for a weekend trip was going to be over $120 with shipping both ways and take at least a week. From Skat-Trak also in California I had the original impeller back in 3 days for a total of $85.

Last time I inquired about a 787 crankshaft it was $275 but the shipping was $75 each way and I had to use their shipping even though I can ship for $25 through UPS. So their $275 crank is actually $425 and I can get an OEM seadoo one for less.

I think SBT has their place in the market but I have not been impressed with their quality of parts or customer service so I will never use them.

 

[wfo speedracer]

Don't forget about location too. For me in California shipping from SBT on anything is just nonsense. The last impeller I needed for a friend ASAP for a weekend trip was going to be over $120 with shipping both ways and take at least a week. From Skat-Trak also in California I had the original impeller back in 3 days for a total of $85.

Last time I inquired about a 787 crankshaft it was $275 but the shipping was $75 each way and I had to use their shipping even though I can ship for $25 through UPS. So their $275 crank is actually $425 and I can get an OEM seadoo one for less.

I think SBT has their place in the market but I have not been impressed with their quality of parts or customer service so I will never use them.

That has more to do with your location than theirs, okay Skat trak happens to be at your back doorstep, I get it, for me to ship something to them takes a week, then however long it takes to rework the impeller and then a week to ship it back.

Also you only have to use SBT's shipping from them to you , at any point you can send them your core first and save yourself $50.00, I can have parts from SBT in two days and dealer prices are lower so it makes sense for me.

 

[mikidymac]

I agree WFO, every situation is different.
The two time I called them on the crank I mentioned earlier I specifically asked if I could ship my core back myself since the shipping seemed excessive. Their exact reply was No, I had to use their prepaid shipping and box from the new crank. Maybe being a dealer is different or I was given the wrong information twice but that is on them not me.
I also don't care for the quality of some of their parts but again that is just my opinion. I do know their carb kits and fuel valves have caused a lot of issues on the forum here and when people have brought them to me they are not OEM quality. Again, nobody has to take my word for it it is just my observation and personal opinion.

 

[MPower]

What about using Nick or Jess? Surely they have mint props they have pulled of skis. I get most of my parts from Nick.

 

[mikidymac]

What about using Nick or Jess? Surely they have mint props they have pulled of skis. I get most of my parts from Nick.

Another great option. I spoke with Nick not too long ago and some of his props are from SBT and he has also used Impros and Skat and has his own opinion on those too. [MENTION=41828]Minnetonka4me[/MENTION].

 

[wfo speedracer]

I agree WFO, every situation is different.
The two time I called them on the crank I mentioned earlier I specifically asked if I could ship my core back myself since the shipping seemed excessive. Their exact reply was No, I had to use their prepaid shipping and box from the new crank. Maybe being a dealer is different or I was given the wrong information twice but that is on them not me.
I also don't care for the quality of some of their parts but again that is just my opinion. I do know their carb kits and fuel valves have caused a lot of issues on the forum here and when people have brought them to me they are not OEM quality. Again, nobody has to take my word for it it is just my observation and personal opinion.

I am also a WSM dealer, with both parties you have to pick and choose which parts to use from them. most are fine some are crap , knowing which parts to use from who took a lot of time and failed parts to figure out.

 

[mikidymac]

I couldn't agree more WFO. It is almost like we have learned something in the decades working on these things. Damn, that was a joke but just made me fee old. LOL.

 

[wfo speedracer]

maybe just a lil bit, in my case it more than two decades

 

[jjsinaz]

The shame of it is all SBT would have had to do is say, we're sorry about it sir. We would be glad to refurbish yours and send it back to you at no charge. Would have solved the problem, you would have been happy, SBT wouldn't be getting slammed (again) on the forum. It's simple good customer service. Don't understand why some of these places still don't get it. The bad PR will probably end up costing them more in the long run than it would have cost them make it right.

 

[wfo speedracer]

Bad PR isn't going to do anything to them, they are everywhere and under several different entities, SBT, Watercraft Superstore and they are on Ebay ,put in a search for engines, crankshafts, cylinder exchange and their name is the first thing that pops up.

 

[jjsinaz]

Yeah, you're probably right.

 

[wabash]

So Speedracer, what's your experience with the snap ring pin retainers on SBT Pistons?

 

[wfo speedracer]

I don't use SBT pistons, I usually use WSM platinums or Pro x and occasionally Wiseco's

 

[mikidymac]

Those funky clips SBT uses would never make it into anything I would build. Are there thousands out there working fine? Probably. But I feel they are the wrong part for the job. They have nowhere the tension or strength of the proper wire clips.
If you use them make sure the gap is straight down only. Never to the side.

 

[wabash]

I'm with you both. One of my GTXs has WSM platinum s in it the other has SBT. The SBTs came as part of a rebuild kit I bought from JJ Machine. I won't buy from him again. I was skeptical of the pistons but after some forum research the experts said they would be ok and to put the snap ring gaps down so that's what I did. So far so good. But I won't do it again.