older 2 stroke

[tomanycars]

Had a guy tell me today that owns a shop that the 2 strokes were never any good. He said he doesn't even work on them any more. Especially the fuel injected ones . He said you can't get factory parts and the china ones don't last but a couple months. He's in janesville Wisconsin. My first thought was what a lazy quitter. If that was my thing i would have figured these things out along time ago . ... And i would have my own test stand with water and tie downs. Called another shop and they have that and said they can fix anything.

 

[etemplet]

I thought about setting up a tank for testing skis. It's a cool idea but it isn't practical for me. If you build the skis right you don't need it. I always say, I'm taking it to the water to see if it floats. You never know what a ski is going to do till your get it out on the water and ride it.

As for the first guy on the 2-strokes everyone has a narrative that justifies what they do. My opinion is that these guys can't get the money working on the two-strokes they can get on the 4-strokes. I can't fault a shop for not working on an old ski because quick as you fix one thing something else shows up. But for mechanical people, the old 2-strokes are a cool inexpensive ticket.

I'll say this, you're not gonna find a good 2-stroke on the market unless somebody already replaced the engine. I restore them completely becuase to me that is the only way to have a reliable ski. It's a hobby for me, I enjoy working on mechanical stuff.

 

[tomanycars]

I thought about setting up a tank for testing skis. It's a cool idea but it isn't practical for me. If you build the skis right you don't need it. I always say, I'm taking it to the water to see if it floats. You never know what a ski is going to do till your get it out on the water and ride it.

As for the first guy on the 2-strokes everyone has a narrative that justifies what they do. My opinion is that these guys can't get the money working on the two-strokes they can get on the 4-strokes. I can't fault a shop for not working on an old ski because quick as you fix one thing something else shows up. But for mechanical people, the old 2-strokes are a cool inexpensive ticket.

I'll say this, you're not gonna find a good 2-stroke on the market unless somebody already replaced the engine. I restore them completely becuase to me that is the only way to have a reliable ski. It's a hobby for me, I enjoy working on mechanical stuff.

I love that. I totally agree. Can i ask your opinion on something., One of my ski's has about 250 hours and runs great. I was going to have the guys do a top end rebuild. 1200 dollars , will that give me a pretty nice engine that can be relied on. Im going to buff out fix the seat clean it all up and call it new. Im getting to old to learn a new hobby but i will say this i'm going to buy that diagnostic device and tinker myself because that is just what i do. I will learn them.

 

[etemplet]

Wow that's a lot of duckies for a top end !! What model ski and engine? There is really not much to doing a top end. You can buy an engine for that kinda money. Top end kit is about $200 then you need the cylinders bored. You can find someone locally to do that. That's about $60 to $75 per cylinder. You can do that with the engine in the ski.

I'd do a compression check on the 250 hour engine to see where it is. Anything under 130 psi I'd do the top end for sure. Take the adventure and do this stuff yourself and spend the money you saved on cool stuff.

 

[tomanycars]

Wow that's a lot of duckies for a top end !! What model ski and engine? There is really not much to doing a top end. You can buy an engine for that kinda money. Top end kit is about $200 then you need the cylinders bored. You can find someone locally to do that. That's about $60 to $75 per cylinder. You can do that with the engine in the ski.

I'd do a compression check on the 250 hour engine to see where it is. Anything under 130 psi I'd do the top end for sure. Take the adventure and do this stuff yourself and spend the money you saved on cool stuff.

Yea i talked to SPI today. A new 787 is 1150.00/. After talking to them i would just put that in myself .

 

[Poormanracing]

Wow that's a lot of duckies for a top end !! What model ski and engine? There is really not much to doing a top end. You can buy an engine for that kinda money. Top end kit is about $200 then you need the cylinders bored. You can find someone locally to do that. That's about $60 to $75 per cylinder. You can do that with the engine in the ski.

I'd do a compression check on the 250 hour engine to see where it is. Anything under 130 psi I'd do the top end for sure. Take the adventure and do this stuff yourself and spend the money you saved on cool stuff.

1200 for a top end is cheap in my opinion.i own a shop and any 2 stroke that comes in I just don't do a top end anymore.its a complete tear down or nothing.unless I have been servicing the ski for years.and even then when doing just a top end the carbs have to be gone thru.

 

[Boyd12]

This is MY opinion:
Reasons for grossly overcharging ($1,100 for a top end):
1. They dont know what they are doing
2. The dont want to do it
3. They are extremely unethical
4. It's an IQ test. They want to see if someone is dumb enough to pay them that much money. If so, they will gladly take advantage (see #3).
Run away, dont walk. Do the work yourself.
PS etemplet is correct!

 

[Poormanracing]

This is MY opinion:
Reasons for grossly overcharging ($1,100 for a top end):
1. They dont know what they are doing
2. The dont want to do it
3. They are extremely unethical
4. It's an IQ test. They want to see if someone is dumb enough to pay them that much money. If so, they will gladly take advantage (see #3).
Run away, dont walk. Do the work yourself.
PS etemplet is correct!

For repair shop to back up his work for future problems a moron would take a running machine and just do a top end deserves a life of future break downs.been at this for over 40plus years.and a factory trained sea doo and yamaha tech doing sleds and jet skis.if under regular use if a top end is worn out crank seals crankcase counterbalance oil and grease etc are also worn out.rave valve bellows are worn out rave valves on yamahas are carboned up.if you can do just a top end in under 4 hours then you are skipping steps and not doing it properly.or are just a hack doing it in there back yard.i opened up my own repair shop and have in my client list over 200 customers that followed me from dealer to dealer then my own shop.

 

[Poormanracing]

Based off a 951 pistons 150 each gasket kit is 140 caged bearings 40 bucks carb rebuild kits are 75 each needle and seats 20 bucks each rave valve bellows 20 each figure in a few cans of break cleaner assembly lube loctite and etc.parts come in at 725 without tax 5 hours to do rebuild and carbs @80 bucks an hour is 400 grand total of 1125 bucks with out tax with out shipping.ad 200 to have them bored and ports chamfered and finished hone to pistons.so yes 1100 is cheap.for it to be done correctly using quality components.also as far as compression check that's a good base but to many variables on just checking cranking compression.low battery weak starter a rich running ski with carbone built up on piston dome and combustion chamber tired reeds etc etc a leak down on the compression stroke to see how rings are sealing is a better indication.have not touched my compression gauge in at least 5 years.

 

[Boyd12]

"For repair shop to back up his work..." Sadly, FEW do that. When something goes wrong, it is always something else. When they replace something that didnt fix the problem, the standard response it "It needed it anyway".
The question was how much for a TOP END. the man was told $1,200!
If he took the machine there, they would then say:
Carb rebuild $800
Fuel lines $500
for a total amount that would be obscene.
If they would have said a top end is $800?, BUT we suggest checking the carbs etc, that would have been different, but they did nothing of the sort.
PS I was a service manager/director for years. I have seen a LOT of shop BS. They tried to steal this mans money. Thankfully he didnt fall for it.
$1,200 of a top end alone is theft

 

[etemplet]

We seldom realize how blessed we are to be mechanical people.

 

[etemplet]

Yea i talked to SPI today. A new 787 is 1150.00/. After talking to them i would just put that in myself .

If you are leaning toward a new engine then just ride yours till it breaks. You might be surprised.

 

[Venturian1]

I thought about setting up a tank for testing skis. It's a cool idea but it isn't practical for me. If you build the skis right you don't need it. I always say, I'm taking it to the water to see if it floats. You never know what a ski is going to do till your get it out on the water and ride it.

As for the first guy on the 2-strokes everyone has a narrative that justifies what they do. My opinion is that these guys can't get the money working on the two-strokes they can get on the 4-strokes. I can't fault a shop for not working on an old ski because quick as you fix one thing something else shows up. But for mechanical people, the old 2-strokes are a cool inexpensive ticket.

I'll say this, you're not gonna find a good 2-stroke on the market unless somebody already replaced the engine. I restore them completely becuase to me that is the only way to have a reliable ski. It's a hobby for me, I enjoy working on mechanical

There’s good 2-strokes to be found, and cheap! I just worked on one a guy paid $1000 for. A 96 GTX, had 210 lbs compression on that 787, raves looked new inside, and it is faster than anything I have!
I just recently bought a 93 xp just for the engine. It has 165 lbs on both, and it’s going into a 2000 GTi. I changed the rotary valve to the 159°, and the carbs from 38 to 40mm, Intake man/rotary valve cover to accommodate the Mikuni bn40’s, and I’ll find out tomorrow.

 

[etemplet]

I think it is safe to say those two skis have had engine work done. I buy skis to restore so I generally don't care what the engine is like. They all get engine work. I've yet to find one that was good to go as is.

A normal 787 with new pistons will have about 150 to 155psi compression on my gauges. If I have more than that I'll check for leaking internal lip seals. Sounds like you got a hot rod. I wonder if it should be running anything but 93 octane. Glad you've had good luck.

 

[etemplet]

Yea i talked to SPI today. A new 787 is 1150.00/. After talking to them i would just put that in myself .

I pay about $900 for a fully rebuilt 787. Problem is the wait times are ridiculous. I have lots of skis though so I'm never in a bind. Good Luck

 

[tomanycars]

So i picked up another 2000 GTX rfi with anew engine That has the first 5 minute running problem then clears up. But the one i was going to do the top end in has 149 compression both cyl. Im not touching it . But if i were to i would get a spi engine and do it myself. After talking to those guys it sounds pretty easy.

 

[etemplet]

I dunno this is how you become a jet ski junkie. have fun !!

 

[tomanycars]

I dunno this is how you become a jet ski junkie. have fun !!

Yea i have 3 now and all i want to do is work on them. Both need to be buffed out as they have chalky paint. I know i can bring both back. One needs a seat which my best friend can fix. He does boat covers and interior., Im pumped.

 

[etemplet]

I use McGuiar's Ultra Cut. Gets under that oxidation really well. When you do the seat do the handlebar pad in the same material. Its a nice touch. Good Luck !

 

[Gasngo]

A lot of service shops are getting away from 2 Smokes. A shame really but my local Seadoo dealer does not work on them anymore. I took my RFI in for a throttle position sensor reset a few years back and it ran funky when I got back. Nothing I could not figure out but they said they where not working on 2 strokes anymore but I would have thought that would be pretty straight forward. Anytime I post Im watched so Ill assume its somebody over there. The obvious keep it simple applies! A carbed unit that has been maintained by someone is reliable and fun. If you ride them and put them up wet then ya you are going to see boat ramp issues. As for the injected I read nobody cares for the DIs. I never had one so I cant comment. I have a 03 RFI and it behaves well. I screwed up and paying the price for a top end oil issue but Im putting back together now and just have to suck it up. As for getting a machine shop to cut or hone cylinders under a 100 bucks please tell me where. 125 to 155 in my neck of the woods.