• This site contains eBay affiliate links for which Sea-Doo Forum may be compensated.

Ok guys I need your advice!!

Status
Not open for further replies.
FWIW the Yami Oil Injection system is not generally considered as reliable as the SD version.

The first thing I did was change to premix on my old XL based on firm advice of experienced owners, and I premix my GP13 now and its an 06. (PO did it)

Upside, eliminates that fault point, Downside, smokes pretty steady especially at idle, sucks to be behind me... (I mix 32-1 to boot)

I doubt its a serious concern with the hours but just thought i'd mention it.
 
Spimothy Leary said:
FWIW the Yami Oil Injection system is not generally considered as reliable as the SD version.

The first thing I did was change to premix on my old XL based on firm advice of experienced owners, and I premix my GP13 now and its an 06. (PO did it)

Upside, eliminates that fault point, Downside, smokes pretty steady especially at idle, sucks to be behind me... (I mix 32-1 to boot)

I doubt its a serious concern with the hours but just thought i'd mention it.
Click to expand...

I would honestly rather pre mix on this machine, I've read too many nightmare threads on the yamaha #3 cylinder going south do to oil lines popping I'll read up on what I need to do to do it right.
Thanks for the info


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Spimothy Leary said:
FWIW the Yami Oil Injection system is not generally considered as reliable as the SD version.

The first thing I did was change to premix on my old XL based on firm advice of experienced owners, and I premix my GP13 now and its an 06. (PO did it)

Upside, eliminates that fault point, Downside, smokes pretty steady especially at idle, sucks to be behind me... (I mix 32-1 to boot)

I doubt its a serious concern with the hours but just thought i'd mention it.
Click to expand...

I'm going to elaborate a little on this statement. The oil lines on Yamis are the weak point in their oil injection systems. The oil pumps are very,very reliable. As long as the old, hardened and shrunken OEM oil lines are replaced with new lines and high quality Oetiker clamps, the oil injection system will continue to function reliably.

I did this to both of my Yamis about 4 years ago. Prior to that they were completely OEM but I felt that the oil lines were on borrowed time.

Edit:
I just wanted to add that I've owned the 1994 WaveRaider since it was brand new. My brother bought the GP1200 brand new in 1997. I got the GP from him about 7 yrs ago. It's a great machine!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Davidgsx said:
I would honestly rather pre mix on this machine, I've read too many nightmare threads on the yamaha #3 cylinder going south do to oil lines popping I'll read up on what I need to do to do it right.
Thanks for the info


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


I know you want to go premix but if you read my post above, then you've read up on what to do to do it right :) .

Yamaha didn't include any extra length on their oil lines and they used nylon cable ties as clamps. The old oil lines shrink in length when they get old and the cheap cable tie clamp can't hold the line onto the fitting. The line pops off and the cylinder is history.

Still, I understand that people don't want to take the chance and I don't fault you or them for wanting to go premix.

Both of my 1996 XPs were premix when I bought them. If I were planning to keep them for the long run, I'd convert them back to oil injection.
 
I can't speak from experience on the lines themselves but I trust Danny's input, and i'm not saying they are doomed, I have a buddy with a xl1200 and a raider that have been abused for years w/o failure.

Just throwing out some input.... I ride a LOT more than I wrench (clumsy fingers) so i'm not that experienced on the mechanical end of things, especially with Yamaha, much more familiar with the SD product line when it comes to common issues.

Actually, i'm impressed that you've gotten this far with the machine considering the water, and the fact that you really don't know how long it was in there... which leads me to my next opinion... (just an opinion, don't flame me)

Given the fact that you DID have that much water in there, the argument could be made that this engine is doomed, now don't get me wrong, it might give you another 200 hours of trouble free running, but I'm always concerned when a machine experiences what I'd consider heavy/long term water ingestion. I'd feel differently if this all happened on a Random Friday and you did all the steps above on Saturday/Sunday.

I also don't generally advocate that someone pass a potential problem along to the "next" guy in line. But its worth stirring that idea around in the back of your brain. If you get it out for a successful water run, solve the title/lein issues and have a ski/trailer that is as clean as you described, you might find you can get a solid price on this. The upside is that you remove a potential time bomb from your fleet, and get a nice $2,500 return on a $400 investment. The downside is that you'd have to start over in your search for a replacement and you might (probably wont) not get nearly as lucky, especially knowing that a lot of sellers might be passing along their "troubled" ski's to you, the unsuspecting buyer.

If nothing else just keep in mind that this situation may contribute to or cause failure in the near/short term and be mentally prepared (you seem to be in the right mind and understand this) for a potential crank failure. From what I recall the 1200's are not prone to blowing out cases like say the 951's for example, and if it turns out to be just that, it won't be a big $ deal, and since if that happens the pipe will come out and you can clean the carb's, do a cat block, so there are some positives.

curiously, did you suck out the water through the reeds as was suggested a few posts back ?
 
Spimothy Leary said:
I can't speak from experience on the lines themselves but I trust Danny's input, and i'm not saying they are doomed, I have a buddy with a xl1200 and a raider that have been abused for years w/o failure.

Just throwing out some input.... I ride a LOT more than I wrench (clumsy fingers) so i'm not that experienced on the mechanical end of things, especially with Yamaha, much more familiar with the SD product line when it comes to common issues.

Actually, i'm impressed that you've gotten this far with the machine considering the water, and the fact that you really don't know how long it was in there... which leads me to my next opinion... (just an opinion, don't flame me)

Given the fact that you DID have that much water in there, the argument could be made that this engine is doomed, now don't get me wrong, it might give you another 200 hours of trouble free running, but I'm always concerned when a machine experiences what I'd consider heavy/long term water ingestion. I'd feel differently if this all happened on a Random Friday and you did all the steps above on Saturday/Sunday.

I also don't generally advocate that someone pass a potential problem along to the "next" guy in line. But its worth stirring that idea around in the back of your brain. If you get it out for a successful water run, solve the title/lein issues and have a ski/trailer that is as clean as you described, you might find you can get a solid price on this. The upside is that you remove a potential time bomb from your fleet, and get a nice $2,500 return on a $400 investment. The downside is that you'd have to start over in your search for a replacement and you might (probably wont) not get nearly as lucky, especially knowing that a lot of sellers might be passing along their "troubled" ski's to you, the unsuspecting buyer.

If nothing else just keep in mind that this situation may contribute to or cause failure in the near/short term and be mentally prepared (you seem to be in the right mind and understand this) for a potential crank failure. From what I recall the 1200's are not prone to blowing out cases like say the 951's for example, and if it turns out to be just that, it won't be a big $ deal, and since if that happens the pipe will come out and you can clean the carb's, do a cat block, so there are some positives.

curiously, did you suck out the water through the reeds as was suggested a few posts back ?
Click to expand...

Thank you for your comments and input, I love all the knowledge and opinion I can get, so no flame here!!
I'm totally ready in my mind for this thing imploding! I kinda expect it!! That's why every time I go home and start it I'm amazed at how quick it starts and crisp it feels. The only thing rattling around is will I do additional damage when/if that happens? Should I pull the motor now and go through, I just don't know! I really don't think you could find a ski this old this clean not that I would probably search if I sold it.

Honestly, I'll most likely roll the dice and stick it in the water and see what happens. Euro side is I scored the KILLER deal, down side I got what I paid for!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
But.....do you think it would continue to start and run day after day if the bearings were all rusted? I would love to know how it was flooded, on the hose or towing???
Questions I will never have the answers to


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
First, I'll say I vote YES for the oil injection system as long as it's properly calibrated and maintained.

Premix - I run 20:1 in my antique motors that weren't built using modern roller bearings, thus these motors need this ratio. Fouling plugs at 20:1 has not been a PITA problem.

I think you can run up to 32:1 in one of today's needle bearing motors under the harshest of conditions without too much plug fouling although that is probably more oil than we really need. It depends on how hard you typically run, you might even get away with 50:1 if you don't do much WOT running. If I was running my ski hard/often at WOT with no oil injection, just pre-mix, then wet my finger and stick it in the air, I'd want somewhere around 32:1 ~ 40:1

So how do we really know when there's enough oil? If you need to find out for sure then pull the jugs off and look at the puddle lying in the bottom of the crankcase. There should be enough oil there to wet the bottom of the crank wheels.

Oil injection is a slick strategy, IMO. At idle there is literally no oil being added to the crankcase but this is not a problem under normal circumstances. Obviously, if you idle for too long eventually the oil puddle that normally collects in the bottom of the crankcase will disappear. But, it'll take a while running at 1500RPM. Riding through a no wake zone will not be long enough to use up too much of the oil puddle I think, especially since I expect you will use some throttle occasionally.

But if you want to operate for long periods at idle (perhaps you're an alien from Mars), you can adjust the pump linkage to provide some oil under idle conditions. Just be careful doing this, b/c it's possible if adjusted improperly you may starve the engine during WOT operation (an alien from Mars never does WOT, right?).

Anyway, I prefer not to re-engineer something the factory engineers already determined was adequate enough to meet their warranty obligations. Okay, it's probably okay to adjust on the fat side of the line by a hair if you feel daring and compelled.

So if in doubt, add oil. Don't worry, I've never seen a 2-stroke engine fail due to too much oil. The plugs will foul early and often if there's too much, and it will become a total PITA keeping plugs in it.

The other downsides of running too much are an unnecessary cloud of smoke and needless wasting of money on oil.

One more point I want to put out there is it's my belief that if you pre-mix instead of using oil injections then I want to say that mixture cannot be trusted once it's more than a few weeks old. So mix it up fresh and use it up, some racers won't use pre-mix that wasn't mixed that day.

This varies a bit depending on which oil you're using but suffice it to say that you were warned. When that motor seizes b/c you mixed at 32:1 but used last year's pre-mix then look straight into the mirror at the guilty party.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
107.jpg
108.jpg
109.jpg
110.jpg
111.jpg
112.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Sportster-2001-951C-Stock said:
First, I'll say I vote YES for the oil injection system as long as it's properly calibrated and maintained.

Premix - I run 20:1 in my antique motors that weren't built using modern roller bearings, thus these motors need this ratio. Fouling plugs at 20:1 has not been a PITA problem.

I think you can run up to 32:1 in one of today's needle bearing motors under the harshest of conditions without too much plug fouling although that is probably more oil than we really need. It depends on how hard you typically run, you might even get away with 50:1 if you don't do much WOT running. If I was running my ski hard/often at WOT with no oil injection, just pre-mix, then wet my finger and stick it in the air, I'd want somewhere around 32:1 ~ 40:1

So how do we really know when there's enough oil? If you need to find out for sure then pull the jugs off and look at the puddle lying in the bottom of the crankcase. There should be enough oil there to wet the bottom of the crank wheels.

Oil injection is a slick strategy, IMO. At idle there is literally no oil being added to the crankcase but this is not a problem under normal circumstances. Obviously, if you idle for too long eventually the oil puddle that normally collects in the bottom of the crankcase will disappear. But, it'll take a while running at 1500RPM. Riding through a no wake zone will not be long enough to use up too much of the oil puddle I think, especially since I expect you will use some throttle occasionally.

But if you want to operate for long periods at idle (perhaps you're an alien from Mars), you can adjust the pump linkage to provide some oil under idle conditions. Just be careful doing this, b/c it's possible if adjusted improperly you may starve the engine during WOT operation (an alien from Mars never does WOT, right?).

Anyway, I prefer not to re-engineer something the factory engineers already determined was adequate enough to meet their warranty obligations. Okay, it's probably okay to adjust on the fat side of the line by a hair if you feel daring and compelled.

So if in doubt, add oil. Don't worry, I've never seen a 2-stroke engine fail due to too much oil. The plugs will foul early and often if there's too much, and it will become a total PITA keeping plugs in it.

The other downsides of running too much are an unnecessary cloud of smoke and needless wasting of money on oil.

One more point I want to put out there is it's my belief that if you pre-mix instead of using oil injections then I want to say that mixture cannot be trusted once it's more than a few weeks old. So mix it up fresh and use it up, some racers won't use pre-mix that wasn't mixed that day.

This varies a bit depending on which oil you're using but suffice it to say that you were warned. When that motor seizes b/c you mixed at 32:1 but used last year's pre-mix then look straight into the mirror at the guilty party.
Click to expand...

WOW!!!!!!!! Such great information that I'm blown away, I'd say "sticky" on that post.
Thanks my friend!
From what I've now come up with I will retain my oil injection, I will install new lines and new clamps.
For the moment I'm running the extra oil just to try and save my motor.
Thanks buddy,
I owe you more than a couple beers!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
After reading that bible I would agree.
But for now honestly nothing probably needs done right away (Except water time)

If you do go PM 40/1 is the number that would be fine for normal rec riding. I run 32-35ish run very hard and in 80 hours I have fouled zero plugs.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Spimothy Leary said:
After reading that bible I would agree.
But for now honestly nothing probably needs done right away (Except water time)

If you do go PM 40/1 is the number that would be fine for normal rec riding. I run 32-35ish run very hard and in 80 hours I have fouled zero plugs.
Click to expand...


OK, tomorrow it's going in the water, **** it!!! I'll let you all know how it goes!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Davidgsx said:
Shoot, I forgot it's last day for soccer, may have to wait one more day


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

What? It's 46 degrees here, I have at least one more weekend of soccer and potentially a week extension on that. Those Cali kids need to toughen up

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk
 
Your telling me??!! They cancelled last weeks games because it drizzled the night before, no joke!!!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I'm hooking it up in a few minutes and pulling her to the launch ramp, if you don't hear from me by 5pm, send out a search party!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
So first water test complete!!!!!! I made it back alive, I took my boys with me I figured the cops wouldn't mess with a dad and his boys!! It works, for now at least, idled out of the harbor (about 12 min) then got on it, nothing crazy as I had my boys, right around 25 mph up on plane and cursing. I must say this monster of a ski handles the rough stuff very well!!! She's all flushed and away until I register her. I'm super stoked! Here's a selfie
132.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Dude it's a f'ing boat!! But super stable, the kids were changing places while I was slow idling and the thing didn't move!!
It's a good family ski/boat
Thanks for all the help guys, I'll keep you posted on the longevity issues!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

O
951 lower end question
Replies
0
Views
55
offgrididaho
O
J
94 xp plastic coming from jet
Replies
3
Views
471
mikidymac
mikidymac
D
Sand in the motor...should I disassemble???
Replies
16
Views
665
AquaEye
AquaEye
L
1998 seadoo xp limited fuel system
Replies
1
Views
293
mikidymac
mikidymac
J
2000 GTX DI won't start without additional throttle and is running very rich building black soot in exhaust manifold and exhaust pipe.
Replies
0
Views
246
Jxd43r
J
Back
Top