Noob with some troubleshooting questions. 92 XP no fuel

[B_PWC]

Let me start by saying that I have read a lot on this site and have learned a punch. And sorry for the long post.

I recently picked up two skis for what I think was a good deal. One is a 92 SeaDoo XP and the other is a 94 SeaDoo SP. The SP will probably be parted out because it is in peices and I was told the XP “ran last summer”. Well after getting both I doubt the XP ran last summer.

I am mechanically inclined but I am completely new to the PWC/boat arena. I have only been on a jetski twice in my life. With that said I am troubleshooting issues on the XP and have a ton of questions.

It has a 587 white motor and I have read a bunch of different things on what the compression should be; anywhere from 100 – 160. I tested compression a few times and got 130 out of one cylinder and 120 out of the other. There was no fuel in the system so I did not have to remove old gas. I have verified that all the fuel lines are clear and I have replaced the battery, fresh gas, and plugs.

The problem I am having is lack of fuel delivery. At first I could not get the system to prime so I manually filled the lines and water/fuel separator with fuel. The ski will start but only run for about 4 seconds. With a little stater fluid it will run a little longer.

I am going to make or order a popoff tester so I can test the carb. I have checked the fuel selector switch and can get air through both the reserve and normal ports. It is important to note that all the fuel lines have been replaced at some point. They are not the grey SeaDoo OEM lines. Also, the oil system has been bypassed.

I have not pressure tested the fuel tank; how important is that?
I get pulse from the pulse line and can blow in a hose for the pulse line and hear the fuel pump click.

Should I focus more on the carb and a carb rebuild or fuel lines and tank? I did pull the remove the pulse inlet cover and the diaprhram looks ok but I have not properly tested the carb yet.

I should also mention that the ski has an aftermarket K&N filter with no flame arrestor.

Thanks in advance for the advice!

 

[B_PWC]

Reading this post was helpfuel and gave me a few ideas. I did try sucking fuel through the inlet hose at the carb and was not able to. And based on the suggestions in this post I should look for leaks and pressure test the tank.

http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?40559-No-Fuel-Please-Help

 

[B_PWC]

Any help on the compression numbers? Are those within range of a healthy engine?

 

[B_PWC]

FOUND THE PROBLEM!!!

First I tested the pulse pressure on the pulse inlet tube and got ~3psi.
[video]http://www.myedocs.com/onlinefiles/jetski/photos/Puls_Pressure.MOV[/video]

Once that was determined to be ok I pressure tested the tank and that was fine. So then I tried to suck fuel through the inlet tube with my mouth and only got air.

I pulled the feed tube from the tank and found that both the reserve and primary pickup tubes were damaged. Replaced them with rubber fuel tubing and it fired up after priming...

 

[Dr Honda]

Good compression is 150 psi. Usable compression is 135 psi. Anything less than that, and you should do a top end.

If you can't draw fuel from the hose at the carb... 1) if you are sucking air... look for a leak. 2) if you aren't sucking anything... your fuel select valve is probably plugged up.

Pressure testing the fuel system is just a way for a shop to look for a leak. You have other fuel issues, that need to be sorted out. (all the gray lines need changed, and all the parts need cleaned)

 

[B_PWC]

Good compression is 150 psi. Usable compression is 135 psi. Anything less than that, and you should do a top end.

If you can't draw fuel from the hose at the carb... 1) if you are sucking air... look for a leak. 2) if you aren't sucking anything... your fuel select valve is probably plugged up.

Pressure testing the fuel system is just a way for a shop to look for a leak. You have other fuel issues, that need to be sorted out. (all the gray lines need changed, and all the parts need cleaned)

Thanks for the reply!

For some reason my last post is pending a moderator approval. But I fixed the fuel issue. I have pics and detailed description in my other post; hope it will be approved soon.

The pickup lines rotted inside the tank.

I really do not want to do a top end rebuild. Now that the engine is running I will let it warm up and do another compression test. I would like to get at least one season out of it before rebuilding the top end.

 

[Dr Honda]

I really do not want to do a top end rebuild. Now that the engine is running I will let it warm up and do another compression test. I would like to get at least one season out of it before rebuilding the top end.

You do a compression test cold, with the throttle held open. But, with the pressures you listed, the engine may not last very long... IF, it runs in the water at all. Right now, a set of rings, and a gasket kit, will let that engine run for a long time. If you have 120 psi in one jug... chances are, it will loose compression because of a melt down in a few runs. When the rings are leaking pressure... the hot combustion gases get past, and overheats the piston. It also displaces the oil.

 

[B_PWC]

Now that is a buzz kill

So only rings and gaskets? I won't need to replace the sleeves or pistons? How can I determine if I need standard or oversized rings?

I have seen gasket kits, are there specific gaskets to purchase instead of a top end gasket kit?

Dr Honda, thanks for the great info.

 

[purple_people_eater]

Now that is a buzz kill

So only rings and gaskets? I won't need to replace the sleeves or pistons? How can I determine if I need standard or oversized rings?

I have seen gasket kits, are there specific gaskets to purchase instead of a top end gasket kit?

Dr Honda, thanks for the great info.

if you do it now like the good doctor recomends you prob will not have to do sleeves ect... if you wait for failure, you could end up buying a new motor all together. so ~$300 now and be good to go, or ~$1300 down the road.

 

[B_PWC]

if you do it now like the good doctor recomends you prob will not have to do sleeves ect... if you wait for failure, you could end up buying a new motor all together. so ~$300 now and be good to go, or ~$1300 down the road.

Thanks for the great feedback. I have no clue when it comes to skis.

How can I ensure I purchased the correct rings and gaskets? Specifically how do I determine if I need oversized rings?

 

[purple_people_eater]

you have to take the head off and messure the diameter of the jugs with a caliper.

 

[Dr Honda]

Yep... pop off the head. Measuring is the best way, but the size should be stamped into the top of the pistons.

If you get confused... take a pic of the piston crown, and post it here.

 

[B_PWC]

Thanks!!! I will take a measurement and a few pictures.

Worse case i could always buy the entire setup from SBT for $300. I want to minimize my costs until I know for sure there are no other hidden gems for me to fix.

Never owned a boat or jetski but I have learned a ton in the last few weeks.

 

[B_PWC]

I got the top end pulled off last night and the rings are "1.00", so now I know what I need to order.

 

[Dr Honda]

yep.... 1mm oversize. BUT... the spec on that engine is only 0.5 mm over sized for the second cut. That may not be an OEM piston. (I'll check into it)


**** EDIT ****

Yep... from the factory, you can have 2 cuts, each 0.25mm. So a 1mm oversize is an aftermarket piston. (you need that company's rings) You are going to have to remove the jugs, and see if you can find any other markings.

If the "1.00" is a bunch of little prick points... and not one stamping... it's probably Wiseco.

 

[B_PWC]

When taking it apart I noticed two things I have questions about.

1) On the exhaust manifold one of the studs were broken off. How important is it to get that drilled out? Are they press fit studs or are they threaded? If their threaded are they reverse threads?

2) On the carb I believe these are the high speed needles. I wanted to check their settings.... One was .75 turns out and the other was 1.25. Nowhere near what the manual says. This ski has a K&N filter with no flame arrestor; can anyone tell me where these should be set?

Thanks for all the assistance and advice. Now that I know the ring size I will purchase the necessary items based on your recommendations.

 

[B_PWC]

Here are some other photos for your viewing pleasure....

 

[B_PWC]

yep.... 1mm oversize. BUT... the spec on that engine is only 0.5 mm over sized for the second cut. That may not be an OEM piston. (I'll check into it)


**** EDIT ****

Yep... from the factory, you can have 2 cuts, each 0.25mm. So a 1mm oversize is an aftermarket piston. (you need that company's rings) You are going to have to remove the jugs, and see if you can find any other markings.

If the "1.00" is a bunch of little prick points... and not one stamping... it's probably Wiseco.

THANKS!!! If I recall it was a single stamp to get the "1.00". Sorry for my ignorance but what are the Jugs? Are those the cylinder walls? If so I assume they can be pushed out from the bottom.

 

[Dr Honda]

When taking it apart I noticed two things I have questions about.

1) On the exhaust manifold one of the studs were broken off. How important is it to get that drilled out? Are they press fit studs or are they threaded? If their threaded are they reverse threads?

2) On the carb I believe these are the high speed needles. I wanted to check their settings.... One was .75 turns out and the other was 1.25. Nowhere near what the manual says. This ski has a K&N filter with no flame arrestor; can anyone tell me where these should be set?

Thanks for all the assistance and advice. Now that I know the ring size I will purchase the necessary items based on your recommendations.

1) It's very important to get the stud fixed. They tread in... std rotation. If you have a left handed drill kit... once you start drilling it... it may come out on it own. The reason you need it fixed is because there is a cooling jacet in it... and it will leak, and the gasket will burn threw.

2) The K&N makes it an unknown . BUT... since you still have the stock air box... I would start with the factory settings. And yes, those should be the high needles. The low needles are on the other side.


On a good note... the piston wash looks OK. (the carbon on the piston crown)


"jugs" is slang for the cylinders.

 

[B_PWC]

I didn't see any markings on the jugs but the inside of the piston has "SBT". I ordered some new rings and some new seals. Hopefully that will take care of my compression issues.

 

[B_PWC]

I got the new rings and honed the cylinder. Not only was one of the exhaust studs broken but one of the cylinder head bolts was cross threaded. Not sure what to do about it. I will try to re-tap it and buy a new bolt.

BEFORE:

AFTER:

I didn't have a ring compressor tool.... I was thinking about making one out of PVC but an easier solution came to me. I had a few rolls of 3M packing tape that had the exact inner diameter that I needed. So with the cardboard rolls and some heavy duty zip ties it worked great!!!! And since the space was so confined, the ability to tear the cardboard rings was very handy.

Replaces P/N 290876972

 

[ocod]

^ Now thats a MacGyver skill.

 

[B_PWC]

^ Now thats a MacGyver skill.

Thanks It worked really well!