New problem, 96 challenger, when does it end?

[2qwk]

So the boat has been running great, I did notice the last few times I went out, that when the boat was trying to plane out, it would make a surging noise sometimes. I took it out today, it went fine for a while and then it happened. I went threw a no wake area and at the end when I gave it the throttle it just made a surging sound and would not plane. It was going about 10mph and the rpm's were at 7000. I did have my only passenger go up front and it did plane out but topped out at 35mph. I think it may be the wear ring but I need to be sure. I would like to fix the boat myself so I can use it this weekend. Is this a very complicated fix or could someone who is a good auto mechanic be able to do it. I am going to try and post a video of the boat trying to plane.


Randy


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQfrgayeFpc

 

[kustomkarl]

Check the wear ring for wear. Here is information on it;
Wear Ring clearance for your seadoo 1.0 mm or (.040in) Measure the clearance at the center of the impeller blades, with a 12” long gauge. Measure the clearance from the venturi side of the jet pump.

Karl

 

[2qwk]

can anyone tell me if there are any other parts that I need to get at the dealer to complete the wear ring replacement. I know I need the wear ring, but I was wondering if I will also need some type of gasket kit or something. My local dealer is not very helpful at all.



Randy

 

[kustomkarl]

Here is a good idea of what you'll be up against replacing the wear ring;

Here is some information on replacing the wear ring.
For starters....

1.) Remove the three hoses on the inside of the boat. (Attached to the pump) if you do not do this first, you will forget and cause all kinds of problems for yourself!!!

2.) Remove the steering rod, 10mm bolt and nut.

3.) Remove 4 13mm bolts holding nozzle on. with this off you will have a much better view of the wear ring.

4.) Remove 4, 17mm bolts from the pump to hull. Make sure you pull off all the lock washers and washers to ease pulling the pump.

5.) This is the tricky part.... Most shops gob all kinds of silicon on when replacing the pump and so it makes it a pain to pull it away from the hull.
You need to pull the pump away from the hull as straight as possible.

They sell a pump removal tool but I just made my own. Cut a length of 2x4 that I set across the rear of the ski and drilled 2 holes in it. I thread long 13 mm bolts with washers through the top two holes of the pump where the nozzle mounts. This pulls it away nicely with a butterfly impact.

6.) Now you have your pump and impeller in your hands, the next step is to remove the 3 8mm bolts on the cone. Make sure you have something to catch the oil and nose plugs.... This stuff reeks to high heaven...

7.) After cleaning out the oil I place the pump impeller side up in a vice. (grabbing the flat end of the pump shaft in a vice)

8.) Place impeller removal tool in the impeller and grab a 1/2" drive 3/4 socket with a huge breaker bar. Twist it counterclockwise till it pops loose. (May take some pressure. I seriously use a 4 foot pipe on the end of my breaker bar and use a popping motion rather than smooth pressure.)

9.) Now that you have the impeller out take your new wear ring and put it in the freezer.

10.) You have to get the old wear ring out of the pump. (I have found the easiest way is to take a saws all and cut a slit in the wear ring the full length of the pump) Be careful only to cut the wear ring and not the pump.

11.) Take a large standard screwdriver and a hammer and tap the screwdriver gently between the wear ring and the pump all the way around to separate them.

12.) Clean all the white corrosion off the pump where you will be putting the new wear ring

13.) After tackling this task go to the freezer and grab that wear ring. (don’t dilly dally with it) get it to the garage and slide it in the pump. you may have to tap lightly with a rubber mallet. If it doesn’t slide in then you didn’t clean the pump good enough. Repeat steps 9 and 12.....

14.) Reinstall the impeller in the reverse order.

Note: it is very important not to pinch the thrust washer when re-installing the impellor shaft. That’s why it’s a good idea to do it in a vice rather than on the ground sideways.

Once the impellor is tight you should have 1/8 - 1/4 inch play in the shaft back and fourth. if you don’t start over and inspect your thrust washer you probably pinched it..

15) Inspect the rubber o ring and if it is good apply silicon and reinstall the cone. Make sure the allen fill plug is on top.

16) Lower the front of the ski and add oil to the cone. When it is full, take a brake and have a drink. There is air in the cone and when you go back you will see that it is low. Top it off and take another brake... do this until the fluid does not lower again. I often start the ski for a few seconds to make sure oil is all the way worked into the bearings and all the air is out.

17) wipe silicon on the set screw and screw it in (be sure not to run it all the way into the cone. just deeper than flush is fine. let it sit 24 hours to cure the silicon and put the nozzle back on.

18) Use Sea Doo 75w90 GL5 Synthetic Polyester Oil

Karl

 

[2qwk]

Karl, Thanks so much for the post. I have the pump off now and I am getting ready to get out the impeller. I am following your steps, and I could not do it without them. Now I am at the hard part, so lets see if I get stuck..

10 posts and I already owe this forum big time. I am going to join as a premium member so I can pay my dues, and get the manuals.

You guys are the greatest....................

Randy

 

[2qwk]

OK, Now that I have it apart I decided to go to the store and get some feeler gauges. .040 gauge can't fit between the impeller and the wear ring anywhere, in fact even the smallest gauge on the set can't fit in some spots. When I spin it I can feel the impeller hitting the wear ring slightly in some spots. If i look at the wear ring, it looks like the impeller has hit it in two spots.

I just thought before I took it apart, that if the wear ring was worn out the space would be larger than .040 not tighter. But then again what do I know.

Any thoughts?


Randy

 

[kustomkarl]

Randy, this is the specs on the wear ring;
Wear Ring clearance for your seadoo 1.0 mm or (.040in) Measure the clearance at the center of the impeller blades, with a 12” long gauge. Measure the clearance from the venturi side of the jet pump.

A little tight isn't a big thing...if it is too much clarence than you have a problem. If you did all as I posted, you should be fine...go have fun.

:cheers:
Karl

 

[2qwk]

Karl, I am not sure but I think I was unclear a little. I still have not taken apart the pump itself. I bought the feeler gauge to see if I could tell for sure if the wear ring is the problem. So where the space is so tight and there are marks where the impeller hit the wear ring, does this sound like it was what was causing my symptoms? Is the surging sound I heard the impeller hitting the wear ring, because the rpms were not surging. If the impeller is so close to the wear ring should it cause the boat to not plane, or do I have another problem.

 

[kustomkarl]

If the gap is larger around the wear ring to the impeller, the jet pump won't have enough pressure to force out the water from the pump...it would suck in air. If the clarence is fine...it might be that the pump isn't sealed properly and loosing pump pressure. That would also cause the problem, as long as the wear limit is not over the .40"

Karl

 

[2qwk]

Alright, The space between the impeller and the wear ring is .018 There are a couple spots where the .018 is to big. when I spin the impeller by hand I can hear it grazing the wear ring. If I look at the wear ring I can see two big marks where the impeller shaved the wear ring.

Now that to me seems like the wear ring is not worn at all, but I also don't think the impeller should be touching the ring at all. and I don't think there should be large marks where the impeller hit the ring.


I would like to add, when I removed the bolts holding the pump to the hull, I was able to very easily slide the pump off and there was no silicone around the pump housing............


Randy

 

[kustomkarl]

By any chance is the jet pump shaft wobble like it's bent? If it looks ok ...It should have been hard to take apart. I bet that is the problem. Seal it and assemble it as per the instructions and run it.

Karl

 

[2qwk]

Karl I believe you mean the shaft that comes from the engine to the pump. I cant check that till tomorrow, the boat is in my friends garage, I have the part of the pump with the impeller and wear ring here at home with me.

Yes there is a little plastic tube that goes toward the hull in the back of the pump, that had some silicone on it but that is all. there was none around the housing, when I pulled the four bolts to the hull the whole thing almost fell off, I just grabbed it and slid it right off, no pulling at all.

So you think the marks where the impeller scraped the ring are not that big of a deal?

I will check that shaft before I just reinstall. I will do my best to try and tell if the shaft is spinning true......

Should I silicone around the whole housing before I reinstall, Is that where it could have been leaking or sucking, right where the pump meets the transom.


Randy

 

[kustomkarl]

Randy, Read step # 5. it explains the silicone and a puller you need to remove the pump assy... Yes, be sure it is sealed real good, no air or water leaks.

Karl

 

[2qwk]

I forgot to mention that when I went in the engine bay to remove the hose to the pump I noticed that the wire that is going to what I think is the temp sensor ( the thing sticking out of the head next to the spark plugs) had fallen off. Could this of caused me any problems?




Randy

 

[kustomkarl]

That's just the temp sensor. It beeps if the engine over heats. Just re-attach before you run it...

 

[glenwhitt]

Should I silicone around the whole housing before I reinstall, Is that where it could have been leaking or sucking, right where the pump meets the transom.


Randy

I use the a new neopreme seal for mine everytime so I only have to RVT around the water inlet tube on the pump that goes through transom. Works good, only like $5.00, and easy cleanup next time around.

I always put the RVT on the base of the pump inlet tube and not the transom. This way I do not have to worry about accidently getting any RVT in the tube when stabing it.

Look on the ride shoe were the pump mounts up to it. If this does not have a seal on it then for sure are sucking air.

 

[2qwk]

OK, So all I did is remove the pump from the hull, reseal around the housing and reinstall. When the boat would not plane I had a 100pd passenger, and the boat made a loud surging noise but it was not the engine surging because the rpms were not surging.

Now after resealing I tested the boat today with a 200pd passenger and the boat planed right out and had all its power back. After stopping and trying to plane back out multiple times I did here a the surging noise but it was very light, as I kept stopping and trying to plane out again it just got a tiny bit louder but still no where near how it was and it has all its power.

I did notice after I pulled it out of the water that there were a couple of spots where it may have pulled some of the silicone threw, probably because I did not let it set long enough so I am hoping that is why it still had a little surge noise to it. I have added more silicone around the housing with the pump on the boat and I am going to let it sit overnight and try tomorrow.

I geuss if adding the silicone made such a difference it must have been my problem?





Randy

 

[kustomkarl]

yes. silicone needs 24 hrs to cure...

Karl

 

[2qwk]

Had the boat out today. The boat runs perfect until you put a good load on it. either a 200+ pound passenger or pushing against a hard current on the river, then it starts making the surging noise and wont plane unless someone goes in the front. Is it possible that when the pump is under a good load that it sucks a lot harder and draws air between the pump and the hull. Maybe a bad seal or something.



Randy