GTI LE No Beep No Start

[tangerine85]

I've obtained a GTI LE 717/720 doo as a project but I'm having trouble getting any power to it.

To start, I have installed a new battery into it so that I can diagnose it properly.

I have no power. No beeps. Pressing start/stop button 5 times does not activate gauges, flash any lights, etc. I have power from the battery into the starter solenoid incoming side. I am able to jump the solenoid and get the starter/engine to turn over. Using the start/stop button I get no clicking or anything out of the solenoid, no sign of attempting to start. From the starter solenoid, on the small red cable that goes to the cut-off relay, I also have power.

The fuse at the cut-off relay and the fuses inside of the MPEM test good for continuity. I thought it may be a bad ground, so I've cleaned up the cable terminals and they seem to test okay for continuity. The grounds inside the rear electrical box (with the starter solenoid) also seem fine.

I have tested the DESS post for continuity/ohm readings. That all appears okay. Moving on to testing the start/stop switch is where things get confusing.

I've tried testing for continuity on the yellow/red and black wire at the start/stop button. With the button not pressed, it is open/OL. However, when the button is pressed, it should have continuity, correct? It's still open/OL when the button is pressed. Does this seem like a bad start/stop button?

I've tried jumping the yellow/red and black wire together (thinking this would bypass a defective button), but still nothing happens.

I've tested the continuity of the yellow/red wire from the start/stop button to the harness that plugs into the MPEM and it checks okay.

My issue seems to be that I am not triggering the starter solenoid to juice up the starter to crank it up. But I'm not sure where to go from here.

I'm not sure if no beeps are related to my other issues. But power does not seem to be making its way from the starter solenoid over to the starter.

Am I looking at a bad starter solenoid? A bad start/stop switch? Or is a bad MPEM blocking power from getting to the solenoid? (The fuses all seem fine and I haven't blown any of the fuses in testing). Any help, ideas, or information would be appreciated. I have the manual and electrical diagram, but I'm not sure where to go from here.

 

[mikidymac]

I have an 03 GTI and pressing the start button doesn’t do anything either.

The only way I know it’s working is the 2 beeps when I connect the lanyard.

So without a working beeper it’s almost impossible to tell what’s happening.

And almost all the beepers seem to fail.

 

[tangerine85]

I've been working on this for a few days prior to posting and thought the start/stop switch was the issue, so I had ordered what is suppose to be a working harness (switch, dess post, and beeper) off of ebay. It's suppose to come today so I'll switch that out and see if I can get any beeps. After I ordered it, I started questioning if that was even the issue (since it won't crank when I jump the yellow/red to black on the start button). It seemed like that would bypass the button itself if that was the issue, so I'm not sure if that is an issue but will find out soon.

 

[tangerine85]

Success. The new start button, dess, and beeper is working now. I get two beeps with the key and the start/stop button is trying to crank over the engine. It doesn't seem to have a choke, but a primer.

I'm unable to get it started up, so going to check compression and see if I can put a little premix directly into the spark plug holes.

 

[tangerine85]

Got it to start up. Ran it for just a couple of minutes on a garden hose. It definitely seems like the carb is off....way too high idle. Massive amounts of smoke...not sure when the last time this thing was started up. Squeezing the throttle, it seems like a big hesitation before picking up. I didn't want to push it on the hose, so literally only a couple of minutes max.

I didn't rebuild the carb but checked out the internals and it seems fairly clean. I'm unable to test the pop-off pressure to make sure that is good.

Is this something I can tune at home using an RPM photo sensor tachometer type of device (the ski has no tachometer on it)? Or should I get one of those and get it in the water to diagnose from here?

Tested compression on an "OEMTools" brand tester from autozone at 126ish front/129ish rear, 2100 ft elevation. Left the other plug in the hole not being tested. Did not have throttle at wide open during testing. So might need a top end rebuild in the near future?

 

[1of500]

Throttle wide open to test compression if not readings can be lower than actual. Rebuild the carb

 

[POPPS]

Run the fuel directly from the fuel pickup to the carb,, the high idle could be from a lean fuel condition.,,rule that out,

 

[tangerine85]

Update:

The carb was quite rough and had a broken bolt section on it. I removed the primer, installed a new carb from OSDparts. Got rid of the primer and installed a normal factory choke. The previous owner used the blue stuff for oil, so I drained and cleaned out the tank and lines and filled it up with the 2 stroke Seadoo synthetic oil (red).

I drained the gas and filled it up with 93 non ethanol. I replaced the water fuel separator. I ran another compression test, wide open throttle, and got 120 and 122 on an Evertough brand tester. Previously I got 126/129 on an OEMTools brand tester.

On the water test, it almost seems perfect. No hesitation or bogs and I made no changes to the low/high speed jet settings. If my digital no contact rpm gauge from Harbor Freight is accurate, it's idling at 1500rpm or so in the water. (This ski doesn't have a rpm gauge). I think the carb claimed it was 1 turn out for low and 0 turns out for high.

The only problem is with the top speed. On glass smooth water, 30mph seems to be the top end (ski speedometer, not GPS). It doesn't really seem like cavitation, it just seems like that's all there is. There isn't any hesitation or bogging in any of the throttle range, just a lack of top speed.

Does top speed decrease as the compression drops? I.e. do I need 150 psi compression for 42-45mph top speed?

 

[mikidymac]

I would verify speed with GPS not the speedometer.

Make sure you changed the inline oil filter on the injection feed line.

 

[tangerine85]

Yep, I've changed the inline oil filter as well. Forgot to mention that. Then bled the air bubbles out.

I haven't checked the speed with the GPS, I figured if anything the speedometer would report higher than actual, not lower. Will check GPS speed this weekend and will report back.

 

[mikidymac]

My wife has a stock 2003 GTI with the 720 and it runs perfect and after about 3/4 throttle it just doesn't go any faster. It is just such a big hull pushed by a small engine, probably the biggest hull/smallest engine combo Seadoo ever produced. It does 42 but feels so slow.

 

[tangerine85]

Well, the saga continues. Previously, I put about one hour on the ski after the new carb, gas, water fuel separator, oil, etc. Went out to test the top speed on the odometer to gps.

Yesterday, after taking it out, it started easy and I warmed it up for about 10 minutes at idle out of the no-wake zone. On my first throttle pull, it got up to 10mph and died. I wasn't able to get it started back up so I used a collapsible paddle and paddled it back to the trailer.

The engine doesn't want to turn over anymore. With the spark plugs removed, you can't turn over the flywheel by hand. I'm not sure if it was running lean and seized up, if this was bound to happen because of the lower (but close to each other) compression, I didn't bleed the oil pump right, or what. Previously, the new carb had no bogging or hesitation and seemed like it ran flawlessly, besides topping out at 30mph on the odometer.

I don't know much on the history of the ski. This week I'll try to get the jet pump removed and see if maybe that seized up...not sure how common that is. I didn't visibly run over anything and looking at the impeller from the rear gate, doesn't seem anything is stuck in it.

 

[tangerine85]

So I removed the jet pump/impeller. While in bad shape, it does spin on it's own. The engine still seems to be seized up with the jet pump removed. I can turn flywheel clockwise probably 100-180 degrees, but cannot get it to turn counterclockwise past a certain point. Does this sound like engine is done, or could the starter be jamming the flywheel?

 

[tangerine85]

Well, while turning the PTO back and forth, it locked up completely. I can get no movement in it now. I took the bolts out of the top of the engine area to peek at the cylinders/pistons. Piston tops seem alright and the cylinder walls seem smooth. A quick check out and I didn't see any noticeable damage but with it seized up I can't raise and lower the pistons.

I'm not familiar with how the cooling system works. I had water in the little compartments once I took the cover off. The gaskets or o-ring seemed to be in poor shape. Can the cooling system leak water into the engine from a failed o-ring under this cover?

I haven't checked the starter yet to see if maybe it's jammed and the cause of the issues. That is next on my list before calling it done.

 

[tangerine85]

So like I said earlier, the cylinders are perfectly smooth. The pistons look great, as far as I can tell (and have researched on here, basing it on what others' bad ones look like).

I've put a socket over the nut on the magneto and was able to get the limited flywheel movement back to raise and lower the pistons some. But it has very limited movement. I can turn it and raise and lower the pistons about half ways until it locks up again.

Could this be a broken connecting rod or something under the pistons limiting movement? I will be the first to admit, I have no clue what I am doing. This is a project to try to learn, as much as it is to fix it. Every time I have read about engine failures here, people mention that the cylinder walls will be trashed. But mine are baby smooth.

Here is a picture with the magneto cover off, looking at the starter I guess it is. Does this look normal?

Edit: Attaching pictures of the cylinder walls and of the pistons. First is magneto side. Second is pto side. PTO side has discoloration on cylinder walls but feels smooth to the touch.

The magneto side piston will raise higher than the pto side (when using a socket on magneto before reversing it since it hits the locked up point). I have sprayed a lot of WD40, but I think there is water in the crank. Not sure if it's the water causing the turnover issue, or if connecting rods etc got taken out?

The top end is missing bolts as I was taking them out to see if I could remove the cylinders in order to get water out of the bottom end.