Fuel Selector Switch: How Do I Work on this Stupid Thing

[Frank_Hassa]

I've read a lot of posts and it's pretty universal that when you change-out the Grey Tempo you also change-out the fuel selector switch. Not sure why, but it doesn't matter because mine broke when I went to turn it, and the plastic nut is broke, and it's all covered in corrosion, so I'm replacing it. But the question is HOW.

There's like 3 fuel lines coming off of it. How I am supposed to get hold of this thing and pull it off the hoses, then pull the hoses so I can use them to measure the new hoses? Only thing I can think to do is cut the hoses, but then I can't use them to gauge how long to cut the new hoses. Is there some trick to this? Am I just finding out what everyone else knows, which is that changing out the fuel selector switch (1997 GSX) is a PITA?

EDIT:
I just looked it up in the Parts Catalog. Technically it's called a "Fuel Valve", Seadoo part number 275 500 098.

 

[Coastiejoe]

Cut the hoses and simply add the 1/2 inch or 1 inch that you cut and left on the valve when you put in the new line.

Most don't do well after a cleaning. The center shaft can suck air and or leak fuel. And for some reason the ports don't line up in many cases after the fact. For $20 it is better to replace it.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

If they're cut too short, use a fuel line stretcher. Yes, it's a bit of a PITA.

 

[Mickirig1]

Longer line will cause no problem. Remember zip ties / wire ties our frineds. You can tie all the lines together and ancor them at the the factory spots. Order a new plastic nut when you get the fuel selector. Use ALL STAINLESS STEEL HOSE CLAMPS. Some have zink screws parts, that the will rust. Then you can't get them off. Consider taking the water seperator / fuel filter under front hatch out of fuel circuit. A piece of tubing and 2 clamps makes it go bye / bye. The gasket tends to crack or not seal.

 

[Cpt Momo]

Longer line will cause no problem. Remember zip ties / wire ties our frineds. You can tie all the lines together and ancor them at the the factory spots. Order a new plastic nut when you get the fuel selector. Use ALL STAINLESS STEEL HOSE CLAMPS. Some have zink screws parts, that the will rust. Then you can't get them off. Consider taking the water seperator / fuel filter under front hatch out of fuel circuit. A piece of tubing and 2 clamps makes it go bye / bye. The gasket tends to crack or not seal.

Why would you want to remove the water separator?

 

[Frank_Hassa]

If they're cut too short, use a fuel line stretcher. Yes, it's a bit of a PITA.

Thanks so much for this advice. I am so grateful and relieved to have an authentic, bona-fide swami f. guru here on this forum! So I looked all over the interwebz for a fuel line stretcher. I tried eBay and Walmart and lots of places that sell Seadoos and none of them had it. So I walked into my neighborhood Advance Auto Parts store and asked the counterman there if they had a fuel line stretcher in stock and he just gave me a blank look like he didn't know what I was talking about.

The idiot.

So then I thought I'd try a high-end professional place like the local Cadillac dealership and they told me that the reason no one knows what a fuel line stretcher is, is because they are obsolete and have been for 15 years. So I'm wondering why you are recommending that I purchase something and spend my hard-earned money on a tool that went out of fashion way back in the year 2000. And I thought you knew what you were doing.

Anyways, the nice folks at the local Cadillac dealership sold me a really nifty upgrade to the obsolete fuel line stretcher. It's called a "fuel line expansion kit" and it contains about 75 fittings of various shapes and sizes, as well as a really nice compression tool to install them, for when your fuel lines are too short you can just add a couple of fittings on to the end and extend the fuel line as long as you want. They said it was safer and was also OSHA approved. Only $175 too, so it was cheap. Anyways, normally I'm really impressed with your expert advice, but in this one instance you really dropped the ball and I almost wound up wasting money on something stupid. Luckily I found someone smarter that was able to save me from the consequences of following your bad advice. I hope you don't make a habit of this.

Longer line will cause no problem. Remember zip ties / wire ties our frineds. You can tie all the lines together and ancor them at the the factory spots. Order a new plastic nut when you get the fuel selector. Use ALL STAINLESS STEEL HOSE CLAMPS. Some have zink screws parts, that the will rust. Then you can't get them off. Consider taking the water seperator / fuel filter under front hatch out of fuel circuit. A piece of tubing and 2 clamps makes it go bye / bye. The gasket tends to crack or not seal.

I'm going to order the stainless steel hose clamps on eBay. Can you give me an (outside) diameter that will work with both the 1/4 and 5/16" fuel lines? Are they about 1/2" in diameter? I've misplaced my measuring calipers and I don't know if I have any pieces of fuel line laying around.

Why would you want to remove the water separator?

He said that "gasket" will tend to either crack or simply "not seal". Not sure what he's talking about. I'll have to hit the exploded parts diagram later and try to figure it out.

FYI, was able to pull the hoses off the selector switch tonight after cutting the zip ties. I was trying to avoid doing that because I don't know if I can remember how it was original when it comes time to put it all back together. Guess it doesn't matter if it's all tied together and not flopping around when the boat is in motion.

 

[mikidymac]

I don't know why you would waste the time and money splicing, adding more fittings and trying to stretch fuel line when for $1 per foot you can just install a new piece of fuel hose.

Good zip ties are just as good as hose clamps and faster to install.

Lastly don't remove the water separator. It separates any water from the fuel and is the fuel filter. When they are old the o- ring can leak and is cheap to replace or you can but an entire new unit for about $20 and have it last another 20 years. If your system has been cleaned and serviced no other filters are necessary.

 

[Cpt Momo]

I don't know why you would waste the time and money splicing, adding more fittings and trying to stretch fuel line when for $1 per foot you can just install a new piece of fuel hose.

Good zip ties are just as good as hose clamps and faster to install.

Lastly don't remove the water separator. It separates any water from the fuel and is the fuel filter. When they are old the o- ring can leak and is cheap to replace or you can but an entire new unit for about $20 and have it last another 20 years. If your system has been cleaned and serviced no other filters are necessary.

What he said ...
I'll call it the voice of wisdom

 

[Spimothy Leary]

I thought a fuel line stretcher was like a muffler bearing.

I have also never, ever spent $175 to save $1 on purpose. (I've done on accident before perhaps)

Return that gizmo, whatever it is and buy more fuel line. Anything leftover make a beer bong.

No offense, but I think the op is in over his head here.

 

[jforest]

I thought a fuel line stretcher was like a muffler bearing.

I have also never, ever spent $175 to save $1 on purpose. (I've done on accident before perhaps)

Return that gizmo, whatever it is and buy more fuel line. Anything leftover make a beer bong.

No offense, but I think the op is in over his head here.

The beer bong idea has been the best suggestion so far :cheers:

You can go back to Advance Auto and just buy the fuel line.

 

[mikidymac]

Stay away from all stretchers

 

[Frank_Hassa]

Okay so an Update. After reading the thread and thinking some more I realized my problem was that I did not want to cut the zip ties holding the 3 fuel lines together for the fuel selector switch, and I did not want to cut the fuel lines because my plan to replace them involved a one to one replacement where I pull one, use it to size the new one, and replace it before pulling the next. (Read about this method in another thread and thought it was a good idea to make certain you don't "cross-wire" the fuel lines and send one that should go to one place, to another place.

Anyways, that's where the mental breakdown took place. I had two ideas that couldn't co-exist. Either you cut the fuel lines next to the fuel selector switch and remember to add an inch, or you cut the zip ties and the bundle will flop-out far enough to pull the fuel lines off. Documenting this in case someone else has the same problem.

I'm trying to do this as cautiously as possible. I already have about 5 different areas of the Seadoo disassembled (carburetors removed, RAVE valves out, oil tank out, fuel selector switch out, handlebars disassembled, etc... and I'm trying to avoid a situation where I have a pile of parts and can't remember what goes where.

I want to use zip ties to tighten the replacement fuel lines, but I'm afraid they'll fall off while in the middle of the water. I sort of half-remember a tool that would mechanically "cinch" or tighten zip ties. Kind of a gun-looking thing where you squeeze the handle and the zip-tie gets a lot tighter than what you could do by hand. Does anyone know if this tool really exists? And also can you use "just any" zip tie, or do you have to use a specific type for that specific tool.

I thought a fuel line stretcher was like a muffler bearing.

My first day at my new duty station in the Marines, the Master Sergeant sent me to Supply for an "ID" cable. Specifically he wanted the "10-Tango" size, because apparently there were lots of different kinds of "ID" cables. So I went to the Supply hooch and asked the Sergeant there for an ID-10T cable and he told me it was WAY in the back of the warehouse, on the top shelf, next to the Frequency Grease, and I should go back there and ask around for someone to help me.

 

[Coastiejoe]

Many companies make them.

 

[Mickirig1]

Check Granger Supply. The fuel water separator has to be useless. All the agitation while riding will never let the water separate out. It's too small, not enough volume of the vessel. Too much flow through it. I do believe the system is engineered to have gas vapor replace the volume of fuel used. Rather then have moisture full air replace it. Gasoline's vapor point / temp is pretty low. I just say add a before carb fuel filter. They have a progressive clog design. They will catch a large amount of stuff before they change flow rate. Most gas pumps have filters on them too.

 

[ravens9273]

I just read this thread and have to ask, "Is this some kind of a joke?"

 

[MikeM8560]

getting the hoses of isn't a problwm but how do you get the fuel selector off? for it it held on I cant get it loose

 

[mikidymac]

Check Granger Supply. The fuel water separator has to be useless. All the agitation while riding will never let the water separate out. It's too small, not enough volume of the vessel. Too much flow through it. I do believe the system is engineered to have gas vapor replace the volume of fuel used. Rather then have moisture full air replace it. Gasoline's vapor point / temp is pretty low. I just say add a before carb fuel filter. They have a progressive clog design. They will catch a large amount of stuff before they change flow rate. Most gas pumps have filters on them too.

Not useless at all. They are the only filtration and separator you need on the ski. Believe it or no Seadoo actually knew what they were doing and the skis work pretty good.
They are only $20, separate any water that can end up in the tank from fueling on the water and getting a few drips in and they filter out trash in the tank.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

He said that "gasket" will tend to either crack or simply "not seal". Not sure what he's talking about. I'll have to hit the exploded parts diagram later and try to figure it out.

While I have to agree the factory separator isn't the most robust aspect of the Seadoo, I kept mine b/c it's kind of cute, it was undamaged and passed my pressure leak check. These CAN become a troublesome device, especially at the worst times, low on fuel while out in the shipping lane in heavy fog.

If I were replacing this device due to it's damaged somehow, I'd go with a real spin-on type marine separator assuming I had room for it, especially if my tank wasn't pristine clean.

 

[soccerdad]

If I were replacing this device due to it's damaged somehow, I'd go with a real spin-on type marine separator assuming I had room for it, especially if my tank wasn't pristine clean.

And you would make sure to use the proper separator stretcher when installing it....

 

[Spimothy Leary]

While I have to agree the factory separator isn't the most robust aspect of the Seadoo, I kept mine b/c it's kind of cute, it was undamaged and passed my pressure leak check. These CAN become a troublesome device, especially at the worst times, low on fuel while out in the shipping lane in heavy fog.

If I were replacing this device due to it's damaged somehow, I'd go with a real spin-on type marine separator assuming I had room for it, especially if my tank wasn't pristine clean.

On the 95/800 I bought from last summer the dam separator cracked when my daughter was wave jumping and the dam ski died because fuel was leaking out. We tried for about 1-2 minutes to re-start the ski, gave up and I towed her in because we were only a few hundred yards from the ramp, noticed the issue when I got it back on the trailer. At that point there was maybe a 1/4 inch of fuel in the bottom of the ski, the next push of the start button could have been disastrous. I always have spares of those things so that was an easy fix.

 

[Frank_Hassa]

I just read this thread and have to ask, "Is this some kind of a joke?"

Some people are having some fun, while also having a serious conversation about the Fuel Selector switch and fuel line replacement methods, and whether or not it's a good idea to remove the fuel/water separator. Might be a good idea wear a pair of Troll Goggles while reading this thread, to help filter out some of the Bravo Spectrum lighting, which can interfere with reading ability in some people.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

I just read this thread and have to ask, "Is this some kind of a joke?"

Yeah, we're just playing around a little.

Frank, post up if you need some more suggestions. What I do for my fuel line leak check is remove the gas cap, disconnect the fuel line from the engine's fuel pump, and blow backwards towards the tank. The couple times I had a leak I found it this way, at least once at the air/fuel separator cup it was hissing and wet with fuel.

The other thing you can do is use a bulb-type hand priming pump like you see on the old outboard boats and get a siphon going, the fuel shouldn't be full of air and you should be able to pull the fuel out of the tank very easily and siphon it into a gas can on the ground. The fuel lines must be air-tight esle you get air in the fuel and the carburetors don't work correctly. Vapor pressure of gasoline is slightly positive so you might notice some slight amount of gassing in the fuel while drawing it from the tank if/when you try but there shouldn't be a ton of air.

In the case of a ski, there's never enough space to mount a marine type of fuel/water separator like this one, and in Seadoo boats since Seadoo just used the jetski drive train. There's enough room for one of these in a Seadoo boat, I just kept my original though b/c it's fine but when there's trash in your tank you don't want that in your carbs and the spin-on will catch an unbelievable amount of junk and still not plug.

 

[Frank_Hassa]

Frank, post up if you need some more suggestions.

I like the idea of an inline fuel filter. There's a popular FRAM lots of people mention for about $6.00, the FRAM G2. Simple, cheap, etc... Separating the water out increases the cost, and I spent some time looking at your "marine spin off" combination filter/water separators and those start at $40 and can go to the moon. I think I'm going to leave the fuel/water separator the way the factory intended it to be, and save some money, and add a $6.00 G2 and have some piece of mind.

Your post describing the dangers of air in the lines is the first I've read of it, and it's caused me to re-think my plan to use zip-ties to secure the black replacement Thermoid fuel lines. There's a $15.00 "cable tie gun" (ELB721 Genuine OEM Supco Mini Cable Tie Gun) at Walmart I was going to buy, but decided to hold off until I have your blessing on zip-ties not being a problem for allowing air to enter the fuel lines. Previous to your post, I was only worried about the fuel lines falling off.

I had also toyed with the idea of using 5/16" (ID) fuel line for the whole thing, thinking that having a larger diameter hose wouldn't hurt anything, but now that I think about the possibility of air getting into the system, I wonder if that's a bad idea. And, while it's in my mind, don't some zip-ties have a tab of metal in them to "click" against the ratchets of the tie, and wouldn't they corrode and break when exposed to water, salt water, salt air, humidity, etc...? Not sure, but there's a little bell ringing in the back of my head right now, saying "YES, you HAVE seen a zip tie with a tab of metal (instead of plastic)."

Has this ever been discussed by the "pro" (meaning in favor of) zip tie people? Maybe only the super-large zip ties used by HVAC guys? If there's a metal tab in there and it goes "poof", that zip tie is going to cut loose.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

I always use the small gear-clamps in the bilge but I suppose you can use zip ties specifically made for fuel lines, not the ones intended for tying cables These have a radius in the head to fit the hose instead of leaving a void like a cable tie would. Still, leak check your fuel system otherwise any leaks and it won't run correctly.

Also, the tubing will be fairly tight b/c you're installing SAE tubing on metric barbs, might argue no clamps are necessary.

You could check out Herbie Clamps, pretty easy to deal with and I've seen them here and there on outboards but not in a bilge yet.

A zip-tie gun comes in handy if you have hundreds to do but it's going to be difficult getting space inside small places around the bilge and the benefit isn't worth the effort for just doing this job IMO. By hand should work as well or better.

 

[soccerdad]

Your post describing the dangers of air in the lines is the first I've read of it
.

The fuel system is 100% dependent on the pump at the carb to suck fuel out of the tank and deliver it air free to the carbs. If there is any air in the fuel, it will make the ski stumble since there is NO float bowl surge area. I would not overthink this. The BRP people did an awesome job. But the skis are just 20 years old. So I would spend your efforts just restoring it and not redesigning it. Of course you will need new fuel line and that inline filter is nice. But keep the stock diameters and I would keep the water seperator. Zip ties will work, but SS worm clamps are a sure thing. Just make it all work like new and you will be good for at least 10 years. I use a hand vacuum pump, like the ones used to bleed brakes, to suck the fuel from the tank to the carb the first time. I can see air in the fuel and troubleshoot quickly. That MitiVac posted for you on another post will do this job AND the pop-off test. Or just hook it all up, start it and watch for air in your new inline filter. Again- you are doing a good job, but don't over think it.