Evidence of engine oil in supercharger hose!

[KefirSeaDoo]

Guys,

I think I have figured out the root to all of my problems....An idiot of a mechanic, who's intentions may be good, but doesn't know shit from shine when it comes to watercraft repairs; repairs he claims he's been doing for over 20 years. You know those type of mechanics that you can only trust with the basics? - That's this guy as I get the lesson $600 later.

Anyway, here is the issue that I am having now...... the last two times that I have taken the watercraft out to sea, I have come back to find out that there is engine oil in the supercharger hose.

The latest excursion, which was yesterday, I noticed white smoke coming from the back of the watercraft midday. I speculated that engine oil may be once again in the supercharger and sure enough when I made it back to the marina, that was the case as I removed the S/C hose.

I have had my supercharger rebuilt, using SeaDoo S/C rebuild kit, which I may have put six hours of operation time on. After those six hours I took the watercraft back to the mechanic because there was oil in the supercharger hose. The mechanic once again disassembled the supercharger and replaced a thrust washer and reassembled the S/C.

I went out yesterday with the watercraft to sea and immediately after launching and giving the watercraft full throttle, it would not surpass 7400 RPM. I knew right away that the repair was bulls*** and this mechanic doesn't know his head from his ass.

So here is what I am dealing with and I once again need help:

#1 - Engine oil in S/C hose (air-feed hose)
#2 - Can't spin S/C with my fingers in either clockwise or counterclockwise direction...even when I try real hard. I made sure with the shithead mechanic that he knows to use only 22lbf. of torque on the S/C nut and he knew prior to the repair.

What do I do here? Should I just take it to the Stealership and quit my whining?

Kefir

 

[Dennis]

You apparently have a damaged s/c shaft seal or maybe installed incorrectly. You're gonna have to find a mechanic who knows what they're doing.

 

[KefirSeaDoo]

Thank you for all the great help, Dennis! - You've been on-point with every reply. Thanks for the last tip on the "buzzing" of the carbon seal and stainless steel collar. Buzzing comes and goes as it pleases, but all is quiet once in the water.

What would you say should be the repair cost (est.) on my lastest problem? And could this problem result in a loss of about 500 RPMs?

Thanks in advance,

Kefir

 

[Dennis]

Well, the way I see it, your gonna have to start over with the s/c. I wouldn't trust any part of the previous rebuild that has been done. Find a reputable tech, tell him your story, tell him you want the s/c disassembled, inspected and rebuilt again if nec. The parts inside the s/c are delicate and machined very precise.(they spin at 50,000 rpm) so therefore the rebuilder must have quality parts, the correct tools and a eye for detail.
You won't know about the rpm's until the s/c is correct but my guess is they'll come back up. :cheers:

 

[Michael211_2000]

What do I do here? Should I just take it to the Stealership and quit my whining?

Kefir

There are alternatives to the Stealerships... I sent you a PM with my e-mail addy.

- Michael

 

[KefirSeaDoo]

Michael and Dennis!

Thank you again for all the help and the PM Michael.

So I blew my top on my mechanic today and in fear of losing me as a client and maybe even getting sued, he's assured me that he's going to do all that's needed to repair the watercraft and get it right.

He's actually coming over to the house tomorrow to work on it.

Here's where I need your help using the following information and if you could provide some type of laundry-list flow-chart for me to follow that would be GREAT! ( as I try to supervise the work performed)

Notes:
1. Oil in supercharger hose (3rd time in a row that this has been the case)
2. Newly built supercharger using SeaDoo rebuild kit (6 hrs on the new rebuild)
3. Mechanic changed the Thrust Washer 2nd time around thinking that the oil seepage was due to that part (not the case as it once again seeped)
4. Mechanic now speculating that the T.O.P.S. value has gone bad and is causing the engine oil to seep into the S/C hose through something like exhaust pressure or something like that pushing it through.....I'm not exactly sure that the explanation was.
5. I called the SeaDoo dealership and spoke with a tech who mentioned that there may be too much oil in the crankcase and it's seeping through the S/C in one way or another.
6. I cannot spin the S/C impeller in either direction with my fingers and I tried forcefully.

Dennis has mentioned possible failure or incorrect installation of the S/C seal......I'm thinking maybe also the O-ring in the S/C may be damaged.


*** Could you please review the above and point me in various directions in a logical order in figuring this mess out with the mechanic tomorrow????***

I have him for several hours tomorrow and want to put his ass to work on checking any and every component that could be a result of my issue.

Thank you guys!

Kefir

 

[Michael211_2000]

Sorry, out of my league now... I've only changed my own SC washers out, nothing more. Good luck!

ps. I did read about a performance aftermarket seal for the SC's that's available... a Viton oil seal? Supposed to be more durable than the OEM SC seal.

- Michael

 

[KefirSeaDoo]

I researched that and found that part. Interesting how its product description made mention of a loss of intercooler efficiency in the event oil is leaking through the seal and it's an intercooler failure that I had a week ago as it was leaking saltwater into the engine oil via the intake. Hmmm...

Product Description: Many people are having problems with oil leaking past the oil seal in the supercharger. This is usually noticed right at the coupler on the intake side of the supercharger. This eventually goes through the rest of the intake plumbing, which loads every thing up with oil and reduces the efficiency of the intercooler. The understanding is that the heat warps and deforms the stock seal. These Viton seals are good for up to 400 degrees. The OEM are rated around (200-250 degrees)

Add to Cart:

•Model: Viton Seal

 

[Slug-O]

Oh boy.... I saw White smoke come out of my 05" RXP one time and soon afterwards the SC blew up and it only had 20 hrs on the rebuild. I took it back out the other day again and saw the white smoke again.... This is. Very interesting!!!

 

[Michael211_2000]

Interesting how its product description made mention of a loss of intercooler efficiency in the event oil is leaking through the seal and it's an intercooler failure that I had a week ago as it was leaking saltwater into the engine oil via the intake. Hmmm...

I cannot see how that would be related... loss of efficiency in cooling the incoming air (because of oil film developing on the intercooler tubes) would not cause the intercooler to start leaking water. You should "Hmmm..." just why your mechanic couldn't figure out how the oil got contaminated by saltwater, leaving YOU to have to figure it out on your own! Your mechanic could not pay me to work on my watercraft at this point Kefir.

Regards and good luck.

- Michael

 

[Michael211_2000]

Oh boy.... I saw White smoke come out of my 05" RXP one time and soon afterwards the SC blew up and it only had 20 hrs on the rebuild. I took it back out the other day again and saw the white smoke again.... This is. Very interesting!!!

Something's wrong with your SC then, better pull it and check it! Could be just a bad seal, could be about to fall apart though....

- Michael

 

[KefirSeaDoo]

Fellas!

So today is the day that I conceded. I caved in and just decided to take the watercraft to the Stealership. I gave the service manager a piece of my mind and told him that I do not want this watercraft returned to me until all systems are diagnosed and they have pinpointed the issue at hand.

I did not give them any authorization to perform any work other than a full diagnostic on the watercraft. They are going to charge me $100 for the aforementioned of which $100 of that can be applied towards needed repairs.

Once they identify what my problem is, whether it is simple or complex, I will elect to either have them perform the repair or I will do it myself. I have become tired with the whole trial and error with my existing independent mechanic and have just been finding myself buying all these unneeded miscellaneous parts with all the same problems still existing.

I will keep you updated on the findings by the Seadoo tech.

In the event that the faulty component found is the T.O.P.S. Valve, is that an easy component for me to replace myself?

Thanks in advance all!

Kefir

 

[red2blue]

a coupla questions...

How much oil is in the sc hose?...which sc hose...intake or leading to the IC? you state the "air-feed" hose. If that's the case...heh...you have a crank case blow by hose that's fed into that intake. The lil bit that's supposed to go in there helps to keep the sc coated in a thin film of oil...protecting it from water vapor and salt corrosion. if you have a lot of blow by...you have may have internal engine probs.

What's a thrust washer in the SC?

The only thrust washers I've ever heard of belong on the outdrives of an i/o motor. ie in front of a prop.

How much oil is in the motor...have you checked? with the engine warm and the ski's rub rail level...the oil should be between the bends.

 

[KefirSeaDoo]

There isn't a wild amount of oil in the hose (intake hose), but there is a noticeable amount of it as soon as you remove the intake hose from the supercharger. I have not checked the other formed hose leading from the supercharger to the throttle body/intake, since that hose has those one-time use straps on it that cannot just be removed. I do not think that oil is coming from that particular hose, since only cool air chilled by the intercooler is fed through there. If there was an issue with that hose, I would find evidence of water, if anything (unless my TOPS Valve is faulty). The oil in the intake hose is clean clear oil not contaminated by water.

The thrust washer is a component found in the supercharger that is behind the compressor impeller.

The oil level in the motor is adequate. With the engine at normal operating temperature and the watercraft level, the oil level is at the upper range of the bend on the dipstick. Anywhere on the bend with the exception of the lower portion of it is a normal operating level. This information is found in the Seadoo shop manual.

 

[red2blue]

The otiker clamp can be replaced with a standard worm gear clamp or for a coupla extra bucks a t-bolt clamp.

Are you talking about the clutch washers?

If the slip isn't set right you won't make all your power. Have your washers ever been replaced or are you still using the original ceramic washers?

Not a bad idea is to have your sc shaft upgraded to the '08 shaft...new bearings and of course your clutch washers.

 

[red2blue]

Okay...I found the "thrust washer" you were talkin about. I've never seen or heard of any others with probs such as you've described being attributed to that part. There is an oil seal next to that washer...under the sc wheel....I wonder.

Sure would like to hear about your clutch washers though.

 

[KefirSeaDoo]

Should have answers to my problems tomorrow via SeaDoo Dealership Tech.....I don't care what it is, I just want it fixed whether they do it or I do it. I just wanna sh** a brick when I'm 20 miles out at sea, jetski-sportfishing alone, and all of a sudden a malfunction occurs.

 

[Slug-O]

I'm glad your looking for the problem now while the cost is little..

 

[Michael211_2000]

I'm glad your looking for the problem now while the cost is little..

Uhhhm, he's already spent quite a lot, I do believe. Cost is not as important as frustration at this point I imagine. :banghead:

Any news on your white smoke though? That white smoke is magical... once you let it out of your Doo, things start going downhill quick! Try to keep your white smoke in! LOL!

(with computer's it's blue smoke that's magical, never ever let the blue smoke out of your PC cause if you do it'll stop working guaranteed every time!)

- Michael

 

[KefirSeaDoo]

I will know today what the white smoke it all about.....I'm speculating that it's coming due to the oil in the S/C hose. Now it's a matter of finding out where and why the oil is there. I know there ain't no SeaDoo Genie poppin' out when the white smoke appears, granting me 3 wishes; Of which one would be a Kawasaki!

As for expenses regarding this f'in headache.....Let's just say that starving kids in Africa are sending me 50 cents a day!

Kefir

 

[Slug-O]

Let us Know what you find out...

 

[KefirSeaDoo]

Oh Fellas, Fellas.......There seems to be more sharks outside of the water than in! I feel safer in the ocean now.

So check it out....Went over to the Stealership yesterday to pick up my Doo and according to them it was ready. So I asked what work they perfomed and the service manager responds with, " Oh, it was real simple. You had too much oil in your crankcase and we removed a quart."
I heard that nonsense and told him, " With that explanation I'm not paying a damn thing." So I asked him to immediately lead me to the service tech that worked on my Doo and I pulled him aside.

Initially, I didn't share with them any of the troubled history of my Doo. Rather, I wanted to see what their findings would be and what'd they share with me. Bastards didn't know sh**. So I started spouting off with all the technical/mechanical knowledge I know and have learned via this site and the tech and I started speaking a different language.

" Did you check the T.O.P.S. Value?; Did you check for any cooling system leaks?; Did you analyze the spark plugs for any indication as to what's going on in the engine?" - Answers were, "No,no and no, but maybe that would be a good idea to check given the info you shared with me."

I had that fool show me the spark plugs he switched out and wadda ya know......They were installed brand-new with 3 hours time on them by me prior to bringing the Doo into the Stealership and they were corroded-looking with rust build-up around the threads and prong, together with a green/blueish tint. So the tech and I are looking at them thinking "coolant leak," and he can't decide if that's the case. So he snaps a high-def pic of the plugs and sends it off to Bombardier awaiting a response.

Then, I tell him (not ask) to pull out a coolant system pressure tester and see if it holds PSI for an extended period of time. Given that the leak is probably VERY minor, it'll probably be tricky to identify using this test, but I still wanted it done; As it is, it's burning through plugs and effecting performance. I cannot reach beyond 7350 RPM on my f'in Doo.

So I left the dealership and told them to call me when they have the results to all these things and that I did NOT intend on paying anymore additional monies for them to identify the problem with my watercraft that I had to guide them to! (Thanks everyone for the knowledge!)

I'm waiting now on answers to it all....We'll see how it concludes.

Tech did removed a lot of engine oil from the formed hose coming from the intake to the S/C. I know I mentioned that the intake hose for the S/C had evidence of oil, but according to the tech, that oil trickled down from the other formed hose coming from the intake/throttle body to the S/C/.

*** Please read this post and reply with speculations on troubleshooting this issue ***
*** Dennis, get in on this action and help a brother out! - lol ***

Thanks all!

Kefir

 

[Michael211_2000]

Didn't you change your leaking intercooler out with a new (or used?) one already? You said you had a new one ordered and were going to look at a good used one in the meantime....

I don't think the T.O.P.S. valve is faulty. A full quart overfull WOULD cause the engine to not reach full RPM's though... where was the oil on the dipstick previously? I thought you'd already had your *previous* mechanic remove oil from the crankcase when it was previously overfull (now that we know the intercooler was leaking, it's more clear how it got overfull... water was getting into the crankcase causing it to "make oil").

I wouldn't be suprised to find that the SC is leaking oil however, especially if there's oil in both the SC intake hose and the SC to carb hose! Why it's leaking, IDNK. I think you might have done better to have pulled your SC out and sent it off for a complete going over.... but oh well.

- Michael

 

[Slug-O]

Damn..... Just damn...... Sorry for your problems..

 

[KefirSeaDoo]

Michael,

I did switch out the intercooler with a used one off of a 2007 RXP after I pressure tested it and made sure it's working right. You are correct in that my mechanic previously extracted oil from the ski. That was a previous time, after he did a full service. Then I had the issue with salt water contamination, he performed a full service again and according to the Dealership Tech, once again overfilled the craft with oil. The man just can't go without over-filling engine oil....Probably causing a domino effect of problems for me as I ride with an overfilled crankcase.

I can't imagine that the supercharger which has been rebuilt, disassembled for reinspection after the rebuild (6 hrs operating time tops on it) is still having issues. Dealership Tech took a look at it and said that he didn't notice any irregular operation with it.

Engine oil was found ALL the way up inside the air-duct/silencer assembly found right near the fuel tank too!...Beginning where the battery is.

I am going to see Monday what they have to share with me. If it's fixed, "Amen." If not, this thing is for sale and going to be someone else's problem. I'm tired of this wasteful spending.