Engine wont turn over with plugs in

[ace422]

Got a new battery this week, after some priming engine fired and ran fine. Started it a few times this week in prep for the weekend. Today it will not turn over with the plugs in. Take them out and it turns no problem. Nothing out of the ordinary is coming out the holes when cranking, so i dont believe its hydrolocked. Taking the plugs out i can turn the pto freely by hand. But with 1 plug in and the other out still wont turn over.

Ive checked the ground and postive at the starter and im good. Checked voltage at the battery when cranking and its good also. Is it time for a starter rebuild? Ive noticed the last couple seasons i get a clunk on initial start ups, sometimes some whinning also. But i let go of the start button, try again and shes fired right up everytime.

 

[mikidymac]

Sounds like starter to me.

If you jump the solenoid does it crank over with the plugs in?

 

[ace422]

Jumping the post gets half a turn followed by a clunk.

Pulled the ground wire off and when i pulled back the sleeves i think i found my problem. The ends look like hell

 

[mikidymac]

Nice job, there's at least one problem.

 

[Steve762us]

Jumping the post gets half a turn followed by a clunk.

Pulled the ground wire off and when i pulled back the sleeves i think i found my problem. The ends look like hell

Yup, those cables are starving the starter for amps!

 

[ace422]

Yea, im going to try and get something locally to test. I still might rebuild the starter, its the only thing i havent redone on this thing.

Mik were you the one that said the amazon kit was no good? Ebay better?

 

[mikidymac]

Yes, for some reason even after 3 tries the Amazon kits were still wrong.

I just went to ebay but for a little more you can actually get the OEM parts from seadoo. It's 1 brush 278001297 $12 and 1 brush holder 278001296 $25.

 

[ace422]

Cool thanks man

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

FWIW, attach your voltmeter to the battery, you should see at least 12.52V before cranking and near 10V while cranking. A voltmeter that captures high and low peak voltage helps. If much lower than 10V, likely an issue with the battery exists. Otherwise, suspect cables, solenoid, and/or starter.

Once it starts and begins running, battery voltage should come up to about 13.8V fairly quickly.

I had an issue yesterday where the shaft bushings in the starter were dry as a bone AND very tight, where the starter wouldn't even turn. Disassembled starter, inspected, cleaned and lubed the bushings, they felt really good, not worn, almost no play. Starter works great now. A rebuild kit should include both, new bushings and brushes.

 

[mikidymac]

You sure on that sportster? The battery voltage shouldn’t be much below 12V when cranking and never 10V. Also it will not show over 12V when idling you have to rev it up to about 4,500 rpm to see the 13.5V.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Maybe idling 1250RPM you won't get much charging action but in my experience most carbed jet pump motors idle higher than 1250 on trailer. If initial at rest battery voltage is under 12.5 the battery is discharged or is in need of replacement.

A drop of more than .5V while cranking isn't indicative of a problem.

While cranking, if battery voltage drops much under 10V the ignition system might malfunction. Thus perhaps I should've said if voltage drops to around 10V while cranking, that's a marginal level and a problem may exist with the battery. Obviously the higher the better but a voltage drop should be anticipated, else if no drop occurs, likely an issue other than the battery exists

Reference your battery load tester instructions if you don't believe me, feel free to paste them here.

If while idling battery voltage is falling under 12V then a restart will begin under 12V, this is a fail?

 

[ace422]

Well a new ground cable didn't fix the issue, still wont turn over. It is better if I just loosen the spark plugs a couple turns it will crank, and removing 1 plug it cranks fine which it wasn't doing before. The #'s now are disturbing though:

Battery is at 12.3v
When cranking with plugs in drops to 5.6!
no plugs in drops to 10v

I bought a new battery 2 weeks ago, then exchanged for another one when this issue first occurred last week thinking the battery was junk. Though it did start a bunch of times when I got the first one.

 

[mikidymac]

I would have the battery load tested it should never be dropping that low.

 

[ace422]

Yea gonna do that. Still want to rebuild the starter. I just dont get what could have happened on the trip from storage to my house? Was starting fine.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Sure smells like a bad battery to me, assuming you're measuring voltage at the battery terminals.

They may have been mishandled, I've been amazed watching those delivery guys at times, they can be incredibly rough handling them.

The new battery should test out well above it's CCA rating by a decent amount, often 100CCA higher.

Wal-Mart is required to use Midtronics analyzers for warranty claims those report CCA and are quite good at pinpointing issues right away, might see if they'll load test it for you.

 

[ace422]

Didnt get a chance to get it tested today.
But i had it charging all day.Put it back in and Now its turning over with both plugs in no problem lol. I get a reading of 12.6 intially and its dropping to 10.5 while cranking. Didnt fire it up because the flame arrestor and airbox are removed. But it felt strong while cranking.

 

[ace422]

Honestly i havent had great luck with batteries, i never get more than 2 years out of them. Im terrible when it comes to maintaining them. Dont have a tender and rarely disconnect them. Just weird that the first one only lasted a week and this new one may be a dud also. Its the AGM from advanced racer recomended in a post.

Could something be draining it?

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Honestly i havent had great luck with batteries, i never get more than 2 years out of them. Im terrible when it comes to maintaining them. Dont have a tender and rarely disconnect them. Just weird that the first one only lasted a week and this new one may be a dud also. Its the AGM from advanced racer recomended in a post.

Could something be draining it?

You should get a good quality tender, I like the Deltran Battery Tender 800 (Waterproof) or the Junior model. A slow charge is better IMO, if you want to charge large batteries then 6A capacity is enough while the small ones will too, it just takes longer. There are other excellent chargers out there but it must be good quality, not Harbor Freight.
This is the curve my Tender 800 produces:



The older non-automatic battery chargers will cook a battery, so don't leave them connected ANY longer than necessary, it's too much of a crap shoot considering the price of batteries.

FWIW, I've seen more otherwise good batteries die an early death due to too much love with a substandard charger than being neglected, IMO.

Disconnecting the battery is a good way to ensure something cannot drain it, the voltage of a stored, healthy and charged battery shouldn't fall under 12.5V for a few months. 12.5 is considered about 80% charge and under that should be charged.

While charging a battery, it must be disconnected from a Seadoo else damage to the MPEM is high risk. NEVER jump start a Seadoo from another running vehicle for the same reason, the voltage might be too high. If less than 14V you're okay but many automatic chargers and charging systems can briefly top out around 14.8V, too close to the limit of the MPEM. Avoid that risk.

These small batteries work really hard, 2yrs isn't uncommon. I've seen new ones burnt up in a day with a hard starting ski cranking too much....

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Didnt get a chance to get it tested today.
But i had it charging all day.Put it back in and Now its turning over with both plugs in no problem lol. I get a reading of 12.6 intially and its dropping to 10.5 while cranking. Didnt fire it up because the flame arrestor and airbox are removed. But it felt strong while cranking.

The initial voltage after being properly charged and resting overnight MUST be at least 12.5V, anything lower presents a problem. Key phrase is proper charging, this entails using a good quality automatic charger set at an appropriate charge rate (not too high) so as not to damage the battery.

 

[ace422]

I have a simple little 2amp charger with 2 settings 6v and 12v, shuts off once the battery is charged.

I left the battery hooked up in the ski tonight, i will get another reading in the morning and see whats up.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Sounds good, as long as it doesn't cook the battery. If implemented correctly, a 2A capacity shouldn't damage the battery. For confirmation, measure the voltage just before removing the charger. Most will take the voltage to peak (~14.5) then stop charging. Once voltage tapers down to float "maintenance" level it will trickle current at the lower voltage to maintain the battery level. This allows for a prolonged soak to take place at the lower level, about 5 tenths above the natural level.

Even these chargers I prefer to disconnect within a few days, this allows me to monitor the battery periodically. If you must set and forget, I suggest some kind of timer that engages a few minutes per week. For this I've been using a low cost WIFI outlet with good results.