89 SP no start

[BrokeBoats]

I’ve been rummaging through different threads and the manual I have and have been having no luck lately. I have 2 PWCs an 89 SP and a 91XP both with 580s. The 91 is running great. The 89 is being a problem child. Story time...

2 yeas ago the bikes were stolen and didn’t get recovered until 6 months later. The day before they were stolen we replaced the wear ring in the 89. Skis got stolen then recovered then the police held them until the investigation was finished. Got the skis back in November so we winterized them and put them away. Didn’t find time to take them out last year so they got more fogging oil in November and put back away. Fast forward to this week.... 89 no crank. Replaced dead battery still no crank. Pulled starter and it was seized from rust. Replaced with a spare which ended up being no good either. But with starter #2 the bike got jumped by a running vehicle. I have read mixed things about this but there’s no mpem so we figured it would be ok. Would only spin for a second before disengaging the bendix. Installed a new starter today and found a bad ground. While working on the bike it would occasionally fart or pop but never really started. Now the ski cranks fast but doesn’t try to start at all. I do have spark and there is fuel on the plugs too. I didn’t check compression yet but the motor was rebuilt professionally only a few years ago. Any other suggestions? The whole electronics box has been replaced along with the coil and CDI. Could it be the stator? Or maybe something with the RV? Could it possibly skipped timing some how? Thanks!

 

[JeremyD615]

What does it do if you add a little premix directly to the cylinders?

 

[BrokeBoats]

What does it do if you add a little premix directly to the cylinders?

Does nothing. I’ve even tried pulling the plugs and spraying ether in the jugs and then cranking. Nothing at all. No pops

 

[Ckrawiec]

Go easy with the ether...pre-mix is the best option...a little squirt bottle directly into the carbs is best practice.

So, it'll crank/spin but won't catch to start. Test compression in both cylinders (cold)....don't rely on HF guages.

Do you have SPARK? at the plugs? Think FAST (fuel, air, spark,timing...in that order)

Stator doesn't need to work to get the engine started....the stator puts out AC voltage AFTER the engine is running....the rectifier/regulator converts the AC to DC for the ski and battery (while its running).

 

[BrokeBoats]

Go easy with the ether...pre-mix is the best option...a little squirt bottle directly into the carbs is best practice.

So, it'll crank/spin but won't catch to start. Test compression in both cylinders (cold)....don't rely on HF guages.

Do you have SPARK? at the plugs? Think FAST (fuel, air, spark,timing...in that order)

Stator doesn't need to work to get the engine started....the stator puts out AC voltage AFTER the engine is running....the rectifier/regulator converts the AC to DC for the ski and battery (while its running).

HF gauges?

I’ve pulled the plugs multiple times and laid them on the head while spinning the motor over and they both spark.

Every time I pull the plugs they are soaked in premix so I have fuel in the jugs

We didn’t take the engine covers off but how could I lose timing? Thanks

 

[noviceskier]

I think by HF he means harbor freight.

 

[Ckrawiec]

Yes, Harbor Freight guages....thought HF was universally understood....junk guages that can offer false readings (low) that you might wrongly interpret as needed upper head work. That is why the forum usually suggest using a second guage (as a double check) or anything but a HF guage to get your readings.

So, you have Fuel (wet plugs using pre-mix), Spark, air is usually not a problem and timing doesn't usually go bad, she's turning over.......seems like all the ingredients are right there to at least get this engine to sputter and fire up (or al least give some sign of life).......but there is a thing as too much fuel (flooding)....??????hmmmm, a 30 year old ski might be ready to be put to pasture....I gotta think on this one.

 

[JeremyD615]

Try cranking it with the plugs out and the fuel turned off. You want to make sure to get as much fuel out of the crankcase as possible. Then add a little premix to the cylinders, with the fuel still shut off, and see if it kicks over. If it fires then, I’d say it’s time for a carb rebuild...

 

[Ckrawiec]

If it's of any help...see attached Troubleshooting pages from your 1989 Shop manual....if you don't already have them....

 

[BrokeBoats]

Yes, Harbor Freight guages....thought HF was universally understood....junk guages that can offer false readings (low) that you might wrongly interpret as needed upper head work. That is why the forum usually suggest using a second guage (as a double check) or anything but a HF guage to get your readings.

So, you have Fuel (wet plugs using pre-mix), Spark, air is usually not a problem and timing doesn't usually go bad, she's turning over.......seems like all the ingredients are right there to at least get this engine to sputter and fire up (or al least give some sign of life).......but there is a thing as too much fuel (flooding)....??????hmmmm, a 30 year old ski might be ready to be put to pasture....I gotta think on this one.

Sorry was just getting off a double and wasn’t sure what you were talking about lol. My gauges aren’t from HF and I will use both to compare readings. It seems like everything is there which is what is throwing me for a loop. Thanks

 

[BrokeBoats]

Try cranking it with the plugs out and the fuel turned off. You want to make sure to get as much fuel out of the crankcase as possible. Then add a little premix to the cylinders, with the fuel still shut off, and see if it kicks over. If it fires then, I’d say it’s time for a carb rebuild...

I feel like there might be too much fuel as half the time thebplugs come out dripping wet.

 

[BrokeBoats]

If it's of any help...see attached Troubleshooting pages from your 1989 Shop manual....if you don't already have them....

Another thing when we first started it WAS trying to start we’d get a little sputter or pop or cough whatever you want to call it but never really fire for longer than a second. After trying to jump it we don’t get anything at all. Would removing the drain plugs help? Maybe it’s super flooded?

 

[JeremyD615]

I feel like there might be too much fuel as half the time thebplugs come out dripping wet.

I agree. That’s why you want to crank it over for a while with the plugs out. You want to purge any excess fuel from the crankcase... Just make sure the fuel selector is turned to off when you do that, as I’m thinking you have a leaking needle in the carb, which is causing it to flood...

 

[BrokeBoats]

Compression on both cylinders is 130psi. Even with the fuel set to off it smells like fuel

 

[JeremyD615]

130 is a little low, but it should run just fine at those numbers. It’s going to smell like fuel since it’s been flooded. You just need to keep cranking on it for 10-20 seconds at a time and then letting the starter cool down for a minute before cranking it again. When you no longer get any mist out of the plug holes, add a teaspoon or so of premix to the cylinders, put clean dry plugs in, and see if it will fire....If it does, you need to go through the carb and rebuild it with OEM Mikuni parts and a new needle and seat.

 

[BrokeBoats]

130 is a little low, but it should run just fine at those numbers. It’s going to smell like fuel since it’s been flooded. You just need to keep cranking on it for 10-20 seconds at a time and then letting the starter cool down for a minute before cranking it again. When you no longer get any mist out of the plug holes, add a teaspoon or so of premix to the cylinders, put clean dry plugs in, and see if it will fire....If it does, you need to go through the carb and rebuild it with OEM Mikuni parts and a new needle and seat.

Ok I got the back cylinder clear but the front is still misting. No fuel is coming in. I just pulled the 2 crankcase plugs and watch about a 1/4 cup of fuel pour out. Also I noticed the RV cover has a gouge in it in the inside?

 

[JeremyD615]

I can’t really tell from the photo how bad that gouge is... I don’t think it should keep it from firing though...

 

[BrokeBoats]

No dice. Both cylinders are blowing out dry. Put new plugs in and a small amount of premix in, new battery spins over but no fire still

 

[mikidymac]

When you “jumped “ it what did you use. Could have damaged the ignition, do you have spark?

 

[BrokeBoats]

When you “jumped “ it what did you use. Could have damaged the ignition, do you have spark?

Yes have spark. Was jumped on a running vehicle

 

[BrokeBoats]

Update. Swapped the flywheel and got it to pop. I’m going to replace the stator as well when it comes in. The magnets on the flywheel had a good amount of rust across them.

 

[mikidymac]

Never jump from a running vehicle or booster pack.

 

[BrokeBoats]

Inside of the flywheel and mags on the stator has rust. I put a new flywheel on and it started popping so I replaced the stator and she runs! Thanks for the help guys