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2005 C180 215 - CEL and Steering Issue

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roncati

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Happy New Year to everyone! New to this forum. I have been searching the posts but haven't come across the answers I need to solve two issues I have. I recently bought a 2005 C180 with the SCIC and 114 hours. To avoid SC failure issues, I had the local SeaDoo service shop install a new X charger and injectors I bought. They changed the impeller pitch to match, test driving it multiple times to get the right pitch. Told me I was all set. However, the boat has very poor steering control at less than 10 mph and it will not get on plane, with the bow way up off the water when above 2500 rpm. That's the first issue.

The second issue is a check engine light comes on and stays on above 2500 rpm. No beeps. No other warning lights. Analog gauges. The light does not come back on after a shutdown/restart staying under 2500. Oil level looks normal. I realize a Candoo is helpful but I don't have the funds right now for that or a big repair bill.

Any input for either of these two issues would be greatly appreciated.
 
They changed the impeller pitch to match, test driving it multiple times to get the right pitch. Told me I was all set.

Well it is not all set. You should be getting close to 8000 rpm on the engine. Did they change the wear ring? Steering is normal at slow speed. Where are you located in Florida. What dealer did you take your boat to? If all is not right with the engine it goes into a safe mode where you can't rev the engine over say 3000 rpms. Did you test drive the boat before you bought it and how did it run?
 
Wear ring was inspected but it was ok. Engine will go above 3000 but then the CEL comes on. No, I did not test drive it but that's water under the bridge at this point.

Based on the bow being so high, I was wondering if it could be related to the impeller, ride plate, nozzle alignment??? Looking for advice on how to diagnose that and the CEL. Thanks!

And if anyone else has the x charger and 42lb injectors on their '05 C180 SCIC, please let me know what prop/pitch you are running.
 
I upgraded/changed my impeller a few years back to a Solas SRX-CD-14/19 and installed a new wear ring. I had the supercharger rebuilt but did not have to change the the injectors. The ceramic washers were intact...got lucky. Get about the same rpm 7800 rpm but added about 2/3 mph. GPS tops out at 47 mph.

I would bring the boat back to the Seadoo Dealer and tell him they didn't do the job they were paid to do because the boat is not running properly. When you start changing superchargers and injectors who knows? The check engine light could be something simple as an oil or heat sensor but you need a computer to pinpoint the problem. If I have a problem with my SeaDoo that is above my ability to fix (I don't own a Candoo), I bring my boat to Brett at Jet Trendz in New Port Richey, FL.
 
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Thank you for the responses from rcguy.

Just took it out again in calm water conditions. Check Engine Light was not on until I got above ~5000 rpm. At full throttle, it maxed out at 7,000 rpm and 35 mph. Checked oil and coolant after I got back and both looked good.

Any additional advise anyone?
 
Thank you for the responses from rcguy.

Just took it out again in calm water conditions. Check Engine Light was not on until I got above ~5000 rpm. At full throttle, it maxed out at 7,000 rpm and 35 mph. Checked oil and coolant after I got back and both looked good.

Any additional advise anyone?

Just a thought:
Could your reverse bucket be too low and dragging the stern down, hence the high bow and slow top speed?
 
I have some questions:

In your 1st post you stated that the shop installed a new SC and injectors. Why are you not bringing the boat back to the shop for the lack of performance after the upgrades? Did they ever test the boat out after the upgrades? What pitch did they finally tweak the impeller to? Any good mechanic would know this is not how a stock 180 should run, let a lone a modified one.

What does the shop have to say about this? I cannot see them taking your money and simply walking away when the boat doesn't run right. Have you asked the shop to run diagnostics on the boat? Have you offered to take them out on the boat so they can witness first hand what's going on?

Am I missing something here?
 
Thank you for the responses from rcguy.

Just took it out again in calm water conditions. Check Engine Light was not on until I got above ~5000 rpm. At full throttle, it maxed out at 7,000 rpm and 35 mph. Checked oil and coolant after I got back and both looked good.

Any additional advise anyone?
Yes, bring the boat back to the shop that changed the supercharger and injectors. You are still missing 800/1000 rpms and 10/15 mph. Again who did this job because we all would like to avoid this dealer/mechanic.
 
Please understand that the shop did the work I asked them to. I brought them the X charger and 42lb injectors and asked them to install them (I was trying to avoid the catastrophic failure of the original supercharger and it seemed like this is a common solution). If they had recommended and sold me these parts, that would be different and I would go back to them but the work was done on a best effort basis. They tried to help me since the extra power was causing cavitation and they tweaked the pitch of the factory impeller. They may have told me but I don't recall the pitch it was eventually set to.

Timeman, thank you for your observation on the bucket. That is the type of advice I was expecting. Is there a way to measure that condition and if so, where should it be set?

BTW - Today I found another forum where a guy with an '05 C180 did the same upgrade and had very similar results with loss of rpm and speed. He followed another's recommendation and installed a Solas Concord 14/19 Impeller and reported that his boat came back to life. Others said a 15/20 pitch might perform a little better.

http://www.**************/forums/showthread.php?t=145253&page=7&highlight=2005+challenger+charger

The impeller pitch change might solve the performance issue. Any additional recommendations on the CEL? Thanks again everyone!
 
I have some questions:

In your 1st post you stated that the shop installed a new SC and injectors. Why are you not bringing the boat back to the shop for the lack of performance after the upgrades? Did they ever test the boat out after the upgrades? What pitch did they finally tweak the impeller to? Any good mechanic would know this is not how a stock 180 should run, let a lone a modified one.

What does the shop have to say about this? I cannot see them taking your money and simply walking away when the boat doesn't run right. Have you asked the shop to run diagnostics on the boat? Have you offered to take them out on the boat so they can witness first hand what's going on?

Am I missing something here?

All I can recommend that you listen to JPass' suggestions. If they are a reputable dealer, you will save yourself a lot of time, money and aggravation. Also a link to the Solas impeller chart: http://solas.com/newweb/pwcproduct/search/default.asp#SEADOO Good luck.
 
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in forward, my R bucket barely covers any of my nozzle, maybe 1/8 or so... My impeller is stock, my boat runs about 7,5 - 8K RPM's and speed around 45,(little more going downhill),
I can't get my head around how a S/C or impeller would cause the bow to ride so high? To me it sounds like the boat is plowing, unable to get on plane, it sounds like you have drag forcing the stern down / bow up, and the engine unable to gain RPM's because of the drag?.
Of course just an opinion, and we all know what those are worth, in any case, good luck, I'm sure you'll work it out...
 
your shooting at flying ducks and missing.....
you need candoo or dealer to see the occurred faults!
impeller pitch causing the problems, i very much doubt that! unless you have gone way out of the operating range recommended. 42lb injector maybe a problem without upgrading fuel pump. i would think that before you had cavitation, that would be still there!! changing the impeller without changing the wear ring wont fix that!
i had over 400 hp on a 13/18 impeller, cavitation occurs from something interfering with the water flow (stick/rock) lodged in the pump or impeller moving, flexing with wear or groove the wear ring.

so first thing is finding the fault causing limp home mode, then move forward.......


tweaking the impeller pitch to solve cavitation is BS, you can file out dings etc, no guarantee on success. i would have spent the 300 on a new impeller and wear ring, stay with the standard 14/19.
 
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What are your max RPM'S while running the boat on the trailer?

I never max out the engine on the trailer. Your boat needs to be in the water to cool the shaft bearings and to put a load on the engine. Maxing out the engine on the trailer is the fastest way to cause major problems with your watercraft and the rpms reading is meaningless. It is like flooring your car in neutral to see how fastest you can go.(ridiculous) I run it at idle speed with a fresh water hose for about 30 seconds to flush out the engine after saltwater use and that's it.
 
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Sorry that post was intended for the OP. Bringing the engine to operating temp in the water then pulling it out of the water and hitting the revlimiter for 1 second will hurt nothing. If he can hit max rpms on the trailer and not in the water then chances are it is a jetpump/impeller issue.

P.S. it is nothing like flooring a car in neutral to see how fast you can go.
 
Its similar to revving a motor in neutral in that there's much less load on the motor compared to when she has to move water through the pump.
 
Its similar to revving a motor in neutral in that there's much less load on the motor compared to when she has to move water through the pump.

Flooring a car in neutral will obviously show you max rps which is what I was asking about not speed. That's common sense.
 
You will run into the rev limiter and not actually see max RPMs. This is done to protect the engine.
 
Ok. Just to provide some feedback that might help someone else in this situation. The second issue I mentioned in the original post has been resolved. After a lot of internet research, I added a bottle of Heet to the fuel tank, ran the boat keeping below 6500 rpm (above that I would get the CEL) and used up the fuel. I then added fresh fuel. Took the boat out and rpms are now back to almost 8000, speed is in the mid to high 40s and no more check engine light. I'm chalking it up to bad fuel from an off the beaten path gas station.

Thank you to everyone for their recommendations!
 
Did you ever resolve your steering issue? I have a 2006 180CS that has the same issue with steering at higher speeds. The dealer told me it was a poor design but it seems worse turning left than right so I’m thinking cables but am unsure at this point???
 
Did you ever resolve your steering issue? I have a 2006 180CS that has the same issue with steering at higher speeds. The dealer told me it was a poor design but it seems worse turning left than right so I’m thinking cables but am unsure at this point???

What exactly are the issues you're having? I find the wind to be the cause of most of my steering abnormalities. That said, I suspect I need a new steering cable as there seems to be a lot of play. I can hear it hitting the cup holder for example....
 
I’ve spoken to a couple dealers and there seems to be difference of opinion from them. The last dealer told me that the steering cable is basically zip tied running through the boat and if these break can cause the cable to flex inside the boat leading to the steering issues. I may bite the bullet and get new cables installed. I was told it was going to be roughly $200 per cable and $300 per install. These are Canadian prices mind you
 
I forgot to mention my symptoms. When I’m above approx 25-30mph my boat doesn’t respond to the turn very well. If I jerk the wheel a bit it seems to steer better or at least hold the line better. Ive actually had my boat jump out of turns over the wake, turning itself straight when your not expecting it. Kind of unnerving.
 
My boat acts similar to what you describe, but I'd say at lower speeds. It isn't very happy going less than 25mph. Mine will do the same thing crossing a wake a slow speed. This is my first jet boat and I tend to think that's just the nature of the jet drive and maybe the 180 hull. I've learnt to anticipate this so I either cross the wake at a steeper angle or add some power. Perhaps, we both need new cables, but at higher speeds I don't have any issues. At the moment I'm planning to replace the cable next spring.
 
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