2002 Sea Doo GTX DI Help!

[cdirck1]

SO, we just bought 2 2002 Sea Doo GTX DI Bombardiers. The dealership originally said they'd serviced them, then after we bought them, said no they hadn't! What all can we do? I am clueless, so pardon the dumb questions. Is there an oil filter to change? DO WE HAVE TO MIX THE OIL AND GAS? We are changing out the spark plugs, the batteries are new, what else should we do? How do we change or add pump oil? All help appreciated! One only goes 23 mph, one goes up to 27/29. I thought they'd go faster. The slower one also sometimes will top out at 9 mph, and we have trouble getting it to start...
Thanks!

 

[Rossterman]

Wow! These skiis are expensive to fix due to The complicated fuel injection system. Properly operating ski should run high 40s - low 50s on the speedo. Could be low compression from a junk engine, damaged wear ring, fuel pump issue, etc. none are cheap to fix- even doing the work yourself.

Based on your questions it seems you know little regarding the mechanical aspects of these models which is problematic. Paying a shop to do repairs will quickly get you in to more than the skiis are worth. Likely if they told you they were serviced and then changed their story about servicing they probably determined they needed major work and are trying to sell at an inflated price over what skkis in that condition are actually worth by trying to play stupid. Personally I’d take them back and demand they either fix them or refund your purchase. As an FYI, Those 2 skiis (with and double trailer and in poor running condition you described) are probably worth $1200 tops due to what could be easily $2000 in repair costs (doing the work yourself, $4000 if someone is doing the work for you). In perspective, in perfect shape with perfect motors they probably would be worth $4000 tops

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Take a look and report engine RPM, if the egine is foing near 7,000 RPM while the ski does much less than 50MPH there's something wrong with the jet pump.

I've seen 50MPH in my similarly powered boat under optimum conditions. Like most 2-strokes, if the DI isn't running correctly, it's likely to be damaged soon, if not already.

Lots of things to cause running issues both external and internal to the engine, cylinder compression of engine and condition of the jet pumps are the places to begin.

When buying any watercraft sold as turn-key, a water test of at least 30 minutes is mandatory b/c running on the trailer doesn't tell you much about how well it runs, only if it runs.

RAVE valves will need to be disassembled and cleaned, in many cases at a minimum unless this was already done recently. Mine had never been cleaned, and there were a couple other issues holding it back and might actually have saved it from abusive treatment. The compression was great but it didn't run out like it should but I bought it anyway with a good idea of why it wasn't making good power.

Another common issue on a used DI would be the electric fuel pumps are corroded and tired, those little guys work their butts off and dirty nasty stinky stale fuel is bad news in any marine engine, especially a DI. Maybe they sat around in the hot sun with partial tanks of stale fuel in their bellies for a few years and someone fired them up sucking nasty the muck through the electric fuel injection system?

A poorly running DI can be a steep a wall to climb for any newby and most shops these days have no choice but to jamb it to you with shop rates being what they are. Best to find someone who works on them everyday, if there are six or eight 2-stroke Seadoos in the service area and not many boats, that could be a good indicator the guy concentrates on them or at least knows what to look for, many times I think the customer pays a high price for mechanics who just aren't familiar enough with the particular model to make good judgments or don't have the necessary specialized tools and diagnostic equipment.

You can download the full array of Seadoo factory service manuals from the interwebs for various models, these are worth their weight in gold and I highly encourage you to do this, read them carefully cover to cover.

 

[Rossterman]

Sportster 2001. Good info to share for sure but do you really think someone that isn’t even familiar with oil & gas aspect of this ski has the acumen to begin working through diagnosing the issues? Hopefully, they will refund his money and he can do some research as to how to inspect a ski before attempting another purchase. If not, as you suggested, better to find a reputable shop (not the one he bought it from for sure!) to diagnose and provide a repair exrimate.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

No I don't believe so either, these DI skis are too complex, not something a newby should pursue if he intends on riding anytime soon. Who knows, it could go well but if he bought them turn-key he should return them ASAP and make sure to water test anything he settles on prior to expiration of the taillight warranty.

 

[Rossterman]

Yeah, I’d agree. Sounds like he tried to ride them based on his comments on the top speed. I’d be sitting at the dealer bright and early tomorrow when they open demanding they either repair or refund the money. If they chose to be scumbags, tell them you will post their business name on the seadoo forum and lay out the details of what happened and how they defrauded you.

 

[mikidymac]

Absolut fraud if they said they were in good working order and had been serviced then changed their story as soon as they were sold.

That is way too slow and something is major wrong with those skis if they won't even go 30 mph, they are 50+ mph skis when running correctly.

 

[Adamdavis989]

Anyway you can post a picture of your engine tag to help me out please

 

[Rossterman]

There is only one DI engine that was made by Seadoo so not sure what the engine info plate will gain you. It’s a 951 and it says direct injection on the top of the cylinder heads by the sparkplugs. Unlikely it was swapped out for something different as the emissions and sensors are too complicated to change over to something else without ripping out all the wiring. Also you would lose most info gauge functions.
If they don’t run right, there are multiple reasons why that can happen. If it’s throwing maintenance codes, you need a candoo ($600) to diagnose it.
Ultimately, we said return them and have them either fix it on their dime or refund your money. Did youmdo that? If so, what was the outcome?

 

[Adamdavis989]

There is only one DI engine that was made by Seadoo so not sure what the engine info plate will gain you. It’s a 951 and it says direct injection on the top of the cylinder heads by the sparkplugs. Unlikely it was swapped out for something different as the emissions and sensors are too complicated to change over to something else without ripping out all the wiring. Also you would lose most info gauge functions.
If they don’t run right, there are multiple reasons why that can happen. If it’s throwing maintenance codes, you need a candoo ($600) to diagnose it.
Ultimately, we said return them and have them either fix it on their dime or refund your money. Did youmdo that? If so, what was the outcome?

Proof/ getting the epa to allow me to run my 2000 gtx-Di millennium edition an that swapping to a 2002 gtx-Di is doable an iv already tried to explain to everyone that the way the regulation is written allows any yr pwc as long as its direct injection or 4 stroke an nor does it say anything about being on a list ( how they enforce the regulation) there being ass hats about it I'm a FAA certified aircraft mechanic an I read an abide by regulations for a living.

 

[Rossterman]

So they are literally looking at the engine, seeing it’s a 2002 model DI and preventing you from running it on the lake because you ski is a 2000? That’s bogus as the engines are identical and rebuilt engines work in many different years (there are 5 and 6 port versions though)

 

[Adamdavis989]

So they are literally looking at the engine, seeing it’s a 2002 model DI and preventing you from running it on the lake because you ski is a 2000? That’s bogus as the engines are identical and rebuilt engines work in many different years (there are 5 and 6 port versions though)

That's exactly my point that engine fits 2000-2006 but because it's in a 2000 an isnt part of there list they say no go iv attached a copy of what they use to enforce this but like iv said before according to the reg any yr PwC is ok as long as its direct injection or 4 stroke. Mabey I'm better off getting a lawyer to go against them because of how veg it is stated.

 

[Adamdavis989]

That's exactly my point that engine fits 2000-2006 but because it's in a 2000 an isnt part of there list they say no go iv attached a copy of what they use to enforce this but like iv said before according to the reg any yr PwC is ok as long as its direct injection or 4 stroke. Mabey I'm better off getting a lawyer to go against them because of how veg it is stated.

 

[Rossterman]

Likely seadoo didn’t get earlier models certified to meet this emission standard hence not on the list. Also worth remembering that just because something is direct injected, doesn’t mean that it will meet 2006 emission level limits. As a parallel, you can buy FI tuners for diesels and other cars that modify the fuel curves and result in exceeding the emission standards and why EPA is tracking down and fining companies that sell these devices. Your 2000 may have different programming that results in higher emissions than allowable to meet the test criteria hence they decided not to pay to certify it (or knew it wouldn’t pass so didn’t waste time/money trying).

You probably only have a few options (not very likely a positive outcome with any) as you are working against the EPA, one of worst of all govt branches.

1. Pay to get it certified at a testing lab (likely well more than the cost of upgrading to a newer ski and still no guarantee it will pass)

2. Hire a lawyer to challenge the way the statue is written. Since there is no cash settlement if you win, you would be paying full pop for their time and expenses. You likely could buy several brand new skis for what it will cost trudging through the slow, inefficient courts system with no guarantee of winning.

3. Maybe you can find and reproduce one of the emission sticker from the later model skiis (calif has one they place on each ski that shows it’s certified as “very low” emissions) and seeing this, they may let you on the lake (although technically you are illegal depending on how you interpret the language )

4. Just consider the time, effort, money, and risk from above and sell and move to a newer ski or different lake. This would be my choice.

In closing, you may know aircraft regs but I spent 20 years as an environmental specialist working with the EPA, california air resources board, and California dept of toxic substance control with much of my time interperating and implementing regulations in the petrochemical industry. That included promulgating new regulations within the state and federal gov’t as well as arguing intent on existing statues that were poorly written. So these are not off hand comments but rather based on my experiencing working with the gov’t in this area.

 

[Adamdavis989]

Might be worth going down in history as DAVIS VS ______ since it is written poorly.....lmao

 

[Adamdavis989]

I did find someone too recreate the sticker but I need a squared an centered pic with a ruler under it to calculate the size

 

[yacht1255]

Thank . very helpful in choosing