Hello everyone, I have a 2002 utopia 205 with a mercury 240hp efi, this engine is toasted, oil pump failed and 2 pistons have now 0 psi result on a compression test, I just found a 2001 utopia 185, the engine looks different compared with the 205, my question is: will be a simple replacement if I remove the utopia 185 engine and install on the utopia 205 or I’ll find incompatibility at some point?
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2001 Utopia 185 and 2002 Utopia 205 engine swap, is that possible?
- Thread starter Finey
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ripcuda
Active Member
Hi. Sorry to hear about your 240efi. Sadly, not uncommon. Do you know the engine in the 185? I'd guess the mercury 210 carb'ed version... but possibly the 200hp Optimax?? The 210 would swap (same block/jet pump as 240efi)... not positive about the Optimax (are those the 3.0L blocks??) Engine cover (flywheel cover) should say which version.
I requested a picture of the engine and he send me this one:
Searching on internet I found the information that this may be the Mercury 240 EFI, But my engine is also the Mercury 240 EFI and looks different the top cap and the flywheel, and some others details like alternator and oil tank position.
this is my engine to compare:
Searching on internet I found the information that this may be the Mercury 240 EFI, But my engine is also the Mercury 240 EFI and looks different the top cap and the flywheel, and some others details like alternator and oil tank position.
this is my engine to compare:
ripcuda
Active Member
Yes. Both of these are 240efi engines. The non-alternator version is the gen1 (I have this in my boat). The alternator version is the gen2 (your engine). These engines can be swapped... same block... same jet pump. The gen2 has some differences. Alternator, newer different ECU, electric oil pump, single throttle-body intake manifold.
You will need the complete engine, wiring harness, ECU from the gen1 to do the swap. gen1 240's have a crank-driven oil pump that is a known failure point. It is highly recommended to remove the oil pump (delete block-off kit) and premix oil into the gas. Otherwise it should be a pretty straight forward swap.
Good luck.
You will need the complete engine, wiring harness, ECU from the gen1 to do the swap. gen1 240's have a crank-driven oil pump that is a known failure point. It is highly recommended to remove the oil pump (delete block-off kit) and premix oil into the gas. Otherwise it should be a pretty straight forward swap.
Good luck.
I got the boat guys, already replaced the engines, now I have a hull to donate.
I would like to know if it’s possible to replace all devices from the 2nd gen engine to the 1st gen engine (oil pump system, throttle body, sensors, alternator, flywheel, etc). The block design looks very similar.
Also: the utopia 185 had a cable that comes from the wheel to the engine, I don’t know the purpose of this cable, maybe control acceleration when turning the boat?
But the point is that the 205 don’t have this cable so I don’t know yet if I’ll find a problem of throttle body adjustment soon.
please wish me luck on this project guys.
I would like to know if it’s possible to replace all devices from the 2nd gen engine to the 1st gen engine (oil pump system, throttle body, sensors, alternator, flywheel, etc). The block design looks very similar.
Also: the utopia 185 had a cable that comes from the wheel to the engine, I don’t know the purpose of this cable, maybe control acceleration when turning the boat?
But the point is that the 205 don’t have this cable so I don’t know yet if I’ll find a problem of throttle body adjustment soon.
please wish me luck on this project guys.
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ripcuda
Active Member
Nice! Definitely interested to hear how this progresses.
So, old original engine (240efi gen2)... replacement engine (240efi gen1)
I would attempt, as you are, to convert the gen1 into a gen2 as far as you can. The changes to gen2 are worthy.
- Intake manifold (w/ injectors and base reed plate)... I would hope that would be a direct swap. Get new gaskets. Cleaning/testing injectors while intake is off is recommended too.
- Alternator : I don't know if the gen1 block has the mounting spots on the block for it and the pulley. I'm thinking it does not... in which case you'd have to go with the magneto stator (under the flywheel) and the voltage regulators on the side of the block. If it does have the mounting spots, I'd go with the alternator. Using the alternator requires the gen2 flywheel also.
- Coil packs/plate should swap... might be the same?
- not sure about ECU mounting on gen2 (gen1 ECU mounts to front of intake)
- the throttle cable you mentioned is for OTAS (Off-Throttle Assisted Steering)... whenever you crank steering to left/right lock... it raises engine idle a little. You can disconnect and not use this. I'm not sure if gen2 has it... the gen1 manifold has a spot to connect it.
- electric oil pump: gen2 has it (and that good!). gen1 uses gear driven oil pump on port-side of block (known to fail, bad). I'm not sure how the e-pump mounts... but I'd try to make it work. Your gen2 ECU will run the e-pump. All you have to do it mount it and plumb in the oil lines. If not using the gen1 oil pump... buy a cheap block-off kit on ebay to eliminate it. If for some reason you can't make the gen2 e-pump work... you will likely want to block-off the gen1 oil pump anyways (too commonly fails - destroys engine) and premix.
- oil tanks. both blocks have oil reservoir tanks on the blocks... gen1 sits it up on top, gen2 on the port-side. If you can mount the gen2 tank... it would make it easier for plumbing all the oil lines (to e-pump, to VST). You could probably make the gen1 top-mount tank work... just need to plumb the oil lines.
- VST (vapor separator tank)... not sure, they the same tanks? Should plumb the same
Keep us posted. Good luck!
So, old original engine (240efi gen2)... replacement engine (240efi gen1)
I would attempt, as you are, to convert the gen1 into a gen2 as far as you can. The changes to gen2 are worthy.
- Intake manifold (w/ injectors and base reed plate)... I would hope that would be a direct swap. Get new gaskets. Cleaning/testing injectors while intake is off is recommended too.
- Alternator : I don't know if the gen1 block has the mounting spots on the block for it and the pulley. I'm thinking it does not... in which case you'd have to go with the magneto stator (under the flywheel) and the voltage regulators on the side of the block. If it does have the mounting spots, I'd go with the alternator. Using the alternator requires the gen2 flywheel also.
- Coil packs/plate should swap... might be the same?
- not sure about ECU mounting on gen2 (gen1 ECU mounts to front of intake)
- the throttle cable you mentioned is for OTAS (Off-Throttle Assisted Steering)... whenever you crank steering to left/right lock... it raises engine idle a little. You can disconnect and not use this. I'm not sure if gen2 has it... the gen1 manifold has a spot to connect it.
- electric oil pump: gen2 has it (and that good!). gen1 uses gear driven oil pump on port-side of block (known to fail, bad). I'm not sure how the e-pump mounts... but I'd try to make it work. Your gen2 ECU will run the e-pump. All you have to do it mount it and plumb in the oil lines. If not using the gen1 oil pump... buy a cheap block-off kit on ebay to eliminate it. If for some reason you can't make the gen2 e-pump work... you will likely want to block-off the gen1 oil pump anyways (too commonly fails - destroys engine) and premix.
- oil tanks. both blocks have oil reservoir tanks on the blocks... gen1 sits it up on top, gen2 on the port-side. If you can mount the gen2 tank... it would make it easier for plumbing all the oil lines (to e-pump, to VST). You could probably make the gen1 top-mount tank work... just need to plumb the oil lines.
- VST (vapor separator tank)... not sure, they the same tanks? Should plumb the same
Keep us posted. Good luck!
update:
it works, partially.
I think is minor adjustment now. I replaced the engine with whole devices in it, (carburetor, oil reservoir tank, computer, harness and etc). the main socket for the wires that come from the dash matches so I keep all components on the engine. now it starts for 2 seconds and dies, I have a bad oil cap so I put a temporary one, you can see it on the video, just ordered a new one, it will arrive in couple of days so I can test with it, but I dont think the reservoir oil tank will make the engine die without correct cap. so I have no idea what could be now.
the video is on youtube:
it works, partially.
I think is minor adjustment now. I replaced the engine with whole devices in it, (carburetor, oil reservoir tank, computer, harness and etc). the main socket for the wires that come from the dash matches so I keep all components on the engine. now it starts for 2 seconds and dies, I have a bad oil cap so I put a temporary one, you can see it on the video, just ordered a new one, it will arrive in couple of days so I can test with it, but I dont think the reservoir oil tank will make the engine die without correct cap. so I have no idea what could be now.
the video is on youtube:
Replaced oil reservoir cap, high pressure pump, low pressure pump with filter, cleaned all ground wires, cleaned the carburetor, replaced the stator and trigger. Now it start and die but I found a trick, if I keep the key on crank position for few seconds the engine will keep running but at idle it will stop again.
ripcuda
Active Member
Nice progress. Definitely sounds ignition/spark related. To clarify... you are using the Gen2 ECU and wiring that originally came on the boat... all with the Gen1 block... yes? There is a black/yellow-tracer wire that on the Gen1 (probably Gen2 also) that kills the engine when grounded. The ignition switch grounds this wire to turn off the engine. I wonder if this wire is getting grounded somehow by your ignition switch (possible wrong hookup?) With the engine starting when cranking but dying when the switch returns to run... sure sounds like something isn't hooked up correct at the switch... something is not getting powered... or something is getting grounded. Also check the shift lever is in the starting position (neutral)... that too grounds the kill wire. GL.
Im using the gen 1 ECU and reused all original wires that is attached to the hull, I tried to upgrade the engine to the gen 2 system, but when I was unmounting it I founded a lot of complications (sensors position, throttle body missing holes for screws, pulley that the old version don't use and don't have attachment for it, and a lot things more) so I give up to turn it to 2gen, i think its impossible unless the guy have soldering skills and ability to create screws holes where need to.
back to my now problem: I founded people having the same issue and the reason was the TPS, (unfortunately the gen 2 TPS will not fit on the gen 1 engine either, not even making adaptation) so I removed the tps wire just to see what happens and the engine started and don't stop, to stop I plugged the wire back, so at least now I know that the TPS is the problem, wow that thing are expensive, over $600, anyways, I ordered one and I'm waiting to arrive, hopefully this weekend we will have it fixed.
back to my now problem: I founded people having the same issue and the reason was the TPS, (unfortunately the gen 2 TPS will not fit on the gen 1 engine either, not even making adaptation) so I removed the tps wire just to see what happens and the engine started and don't stop, to stop I plugged the wire back, so at least now I know that the TPS is the problem, wow that thing are expensive, over $600, anyways, I ordered one and I'm waiting to arrive, hopefully this weekend we will have it fixed.
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I too, have run into the stupid expensive TPS. My understanding is Cummins made them in England and no longer makes them. They are becoming rare; hence the price. If you come across the older style TPS; looks the same, but round connector. Ten minutes with a soldering iron, and you have a functional TPS. Mine has lasted 5 years. I paid $125 for NOS unit.
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