2000 GTI hard first time start issue

[gman1103]

New to me---2000 GTI
If the ski sits for more than 3 days it is very hard to start--in or out of the water
Once it starts it runs great and also starts right up in and out of the water
Compression in 135 in both jugs
No grey fuel lines
Have not done any work on the carb

Any ideas or suggestions

Gary

 

[Bills86e]

Weekly starting

New to me---2000 GTI
If the ski sits for more than 3 days it is very hard to start--in or out of the water
Once it starts it runs great and also starts right up in and out of the water
Compression in 135 in both jugs
No grey fuel lines
Have not done any work on the carb

Any ideas or suggestions

Gary

We suggest you pull the choke, or if you have a primer bulb, pump that several times.
Do a *plug reading if you suspect other probs.

Are you inspecting/dumping the water separator/filter each time you ride?

Any more probs, post it here!

 

[gman1103]

I always pull the choke---there is no primer bulb
I'm not sure what a plug reading is--do you mean check the spark plugs?
I am not dumping the water separator each time--I will make this a routine in the future

Thanks

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Shooting from the hip, I'd say the original metering needles are likely grooved and sticking slightly. Make sure the choke blade linkage is adjusted such that the choke butterflies close completely when the choke is pulled. With choke butterflies fully closed, there should be sufficient vacuum pressure available in the throttle bores to pry open even the most stubborn of metering valves.

If the ski is otherwise running perfectly and you do decide to overhaul the carbs, avoid making any changes other than replacing with like parts, including new needle and seat of the same size orifice. Especially avoid any temptation to change metering springs, it's best to retain the original ones in favor of the incorrect ones that will come in the kit.

 

[- BiRkS_]

Could also be a leaky check valve in the fuel pump, but i would imagine you would experience running problems at high rpm. Sounds like carbs are due for a rebuild. Use a Genuine Mikuni rebuild kit not the aftermarket ones.

 

[gman1103]

would a carb needing a rebuild cause a hard start when sitting for more than a couple of days but again no problem starting if I should use it everyday for a week straight?

 

[gman1103]

With a fully charged battery, when I start the ski for the first time, the starter only stays engaged for about less then five seconds. I have to keep letting go of the start button then push the start button to get more "cranks" out of the starter. I have to do this for over 5minutes until the ski starts. Once the ski starts, again I have no problem and the starter will fire up the ski before it stops cranking.

My question is, is this normal operation for a starter?

thanks again

Gary

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

With a fully charged battery, when I start the ski for the first time, the starter only stays engaged for about less then five seconds. I have to keep letting go of the start button then push the start button to get more "cranks" out of the starter. I have to do this for over 5minutes until the ski starts. Once the ski starts, again I have no problem and the starter will fire up the ski before it stops cranking.

My question is, is this normal operation for a starter?

thanks again

Gary

The MPEM will stop the starter if it thinks engine speed is 1000RPM or more. So if you see your tachometer above this level, then the MPEM also sees it and disables the starter solenoid.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

would a carb needing a rebuild cause a hard start when sitting for more than a couple of days but again no problem starting if I should use it everyday for a week straight?

I wouldn't rebuild a carb for that, could be the fuel pump loses it's prime. I would consider rebuilding the fuel pump if it's been done since leaving the factory, someone may have installed the circular valves upside down.

You should be using the choke to help start a carbed engine if it hasn't been started recently. Does your choke work properly (close both choke plates fully when engaged?

 

[gman1103]

The MPEM will stop the starter if it thinks engine speed is 1000RPM or more. So if you see your tachometer above this level, then the MPEM also sees it and disables the starter solenoid.

unfortunately there is no tach on the ski, but how would the rpms be over 1000 if the ski hasn't started yet?

 

[gman1103]

I wouldn't rebuild a carb for that, could be the fuel pump loses it's prime. I would consider rebuilding the fuel pump if it's been done since leaving the factory, someone may have installed the circular valves upside down.

not sure if the fuel pump has been rebuilt before, but I agree that it is loosing its prime, I will take your advise and rebuilt in the off season

You should be using the choke to help start a carbed engine if it hasn't been started recently. Does your choke work properly (close both choke plates fully when engaged?

I always choke when trying to start--I haven't check to see if the plates are being fully engaged but I would think they are because I can shut the ski off when running by pulling the choke--is my assumption correct?

thanks again

gary

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

unfortunately there is no tach on the ski, but how would the rpms be over 1000 if the ski hasn't started yet?

I'd be surprised if the RPM exceeded this threshold value of 1000RPM during cranking, basically just info.

So when the start attempt fails, does the starter motor actually stop, or does it continue running but just stops turning engine (does starter motor become disengaged but still runs)?

I'm wondering if the problem is in the starter, starter solenoid, or start button circuit. Could also be a weak battery/connection or even a possible issue with the lanyard post.

Just throwing out some ideas for the process of elimination.

Physically check to make sure your choke plates are physically closing, if not this could explain a hard cold start. Of course this doesn't have much priority if your starter doesn't crank the motor but mine usually starts within 5 seconds cold with choke pulled, if it's stubborn I'll give the throttle a couple of pulls to take advantage of the accelerator pump feature.

If your fuel pump (on the side of the carburetor) check valves aren't sealing well, the fuel could be running back into the tank, which could leave the carbs dry(almost empty) and require extra cranking time to draw the fuel back up to fill the carbs. You could consider temporarily installing a fuel line from the reserve switch valve to the fuel pump made of clear vinyl. Home depot has this tubing.

The starter issue sounds like something's not working properly though. I think it should crank as long as you hold the start button, even if it takes a long time to pump the fuel back up.

My engine isn't the same model as yours of course, you have the 717.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

I also tend to think if you go through the trouble of rebuilding the fuel pump or tear it down to inspect the check valves, you may as well tear the carbs down and rebuild them.

New needle and seats, metering diaphragm, thimble shaped fuel filters and a thorough internal cleaning with carb solvent chased with compressed air.

New fuel lines too, especially if they're the gray Tempo lines, those decay internally and will plug your fuel system.

As far as the starter goes you might just need a new solenoid, but the problem description is unclear in my head. Anyway, the starter solenoids do wear out and corrode inside if water gets in, and sometimes can also stick on and cause damage to the starter, so a new one isn't a bad idea, regardless. I'm waiting for mine to malfunction, and will replace it immediately if it shows any signs of malfunctioning. The way to check this is by placing a voltmeter on the small "energize" terminal and monitoring voltage there while attempting to start the engine. If the voltage is there but the starter stops running then the solenoid isn't doing it's job.