1996 spx wont start

[danskone_2000]

Ive been trying to get my 96 spx running and ready for summer. I have done a compression test and its exactly the same as my 96 gti (same motor) that roars to life the second i touch the start button. Ive changed out the gray tempo lines and cleaned the carbs. the pump is pulling gas and to be positive I put some gas in the cylinders and I still can't get it to pop. I have checked for spark and I do have a spark, but it seems weak. I have read on the forum to check for bad connections on the coil wires. I ll do that Monday. Is there a way to measure the spark ? Also, when the key is put on the post Im supposed to get 2 beeps telling me its good to go. When I put my key on I get 2 beeps a slight pause and a 3rd beep (one more than the two I expect). What is this additional beep trying to tell me ? Knowing what this means might tell me where to look. Where would I find a chart with the "beep codes" ? any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.....

 

[Ankeneyou]

you can download a shop manual at seadoomanuals.net and can find the beep codes in the troubleshooting section. If I remember correctly, 2 short then one long beep is the temp sensor. it's either bad or grounded out somewhere.

 

[danskone_2000]

Thanks Ankeneyou. I will look in the troubleshooting section. If the beep(s) are signaling a temp sensor issue, it doesn't seem like that would cause a weak spark or no spark situation. But I've been wrong many times before. LOL.. I pulled the mpem today and it appears that the yellow/red wire in the harness plugging into the starter solenoid has a bad connection. I'm going to double check later tonight. Doesn't seem like that would be related to spark either ??? It's possible I have more than one issue...

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

If your starter is turning over properly, your solenoid is doing its job. I'd definitely start with finiding out what the beep codes are. If the overheat sensor is shorted out, it should just give you a continuous beep It closes a circuit with ground when it's activated. Weak spark could be weak coil, or frayed wires. I've had them fray right around where they come through the electrical box. You can also try removing the plug caps and trimming the wires back 1/4". Sometimes the caps themselves go bad, they're supposed to have 5-10kohm resistance ( I forget which ). You could measure it and see what resistance you have in them. Do you have at least 11V while cranking?
There is a spark tester tool available from most autopart stores. You plug it in, and can measure how far apart you can spread the two contacts and still have it arc. Should be at least an inch according to my baseline measurements of my 787 SPX. You can test against your other running ski to compare.

 

[danskone_2000]

Thanks Idoseadoo, I didn't check the volts while cranking. I will next time. I have trimmed the 1/4 off the wires. I double checked the mpem and replaced it as it did have a bad reading. Still wont start. I suspect the coil so I pulled it out to test. I looked at some videos of how to test coil in general as I could not find one for my exact part. I couldn't find the specified resistance values to compare with. I tested between the 2 spark plug leads (caps off) and got 12,000 ohms. Does that seem right ? On the primary test, I put one multi meter lead to the connection where the black/red wire goes and the other lead to ground. Im getting a reading of 7 million ohms. All the videos I saw testing this were in the 1-5 ohm range. Again, not for my specific part though. The manual doesn't say to test this way. Is this test invalid for my part ? I did test the resistance on the wires coming from the stator. They are within spec. any help appreciated. thanks

 

[mikidymac]

The manual has the procedure to test the coil and the readings.

 

[danskone_2000]

Yes, The manual has the readings for the generating coil and the secondary windings. I got 58 ohms and 12,000 ohms, perfect... The manual doesn't mention the other test I did, Im guessing because its not valid for my part.

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

Did you check the wires going to the coil? Make sure they're not corroded. Sometimes corrosion will occur inside the connector, under the insulation and make bad contact. I bought a cheap ski once because the ground to the coil was bad, but looked good.

For whatever reason, I can't post links, so just google "advance autoparts spark tester" and look at the one for $28.49. It allows you to separate the arc distance. I recall getting at least an inch and having spark on my SPX when I tested it. You can compare to your GTI. This will tell if your spark really is weak. I trust you tried new plugs, yea?

 

[danskone_2000]

Im going out to buy a spark tester now. I was going to swap coils with the running ski and see what happens. The way things are going Id probably mess something up with the gti and have 2 skis that dont run rather than fix the spx and have 2 skis that do run. LOL....

 

[danskone_2000]

up date.......I did buy a spark tester. The spark jumps the same as the running gti. The gti is in the garage and the spx is outside so I had a friend hold a "tent" over the spark tester while testing. I've tested the stator at the black and black/red wire and it's good. I replaced the mpem and the rectifier. The timing mark on the stator is right on. For the hell of it, I did swap coils. I put in new plugs. I checked compression and its the same as the gti. The gauge reads about 95psi from both skis. I know the correct compression should be 130-150 psi. My gauge is at the end of a 22in hose which should make the reading lower. And the gti starts no problem. I put new gas in a coffee can attached a clear hose to the input of the carbs. I tried to start the ski and it turns over like nobody's business. I can see the gas drawing into the carbs and the spark plugs end up wet. I backed out the low adjusting screws 1 1/4 turns and just cracked open the high adjusting screws. I forgot to check voltage while cranking though. I will when it stops raining. If that checks out, what's left ? The only thing I know of is the rotary valve ? Is there a way to check it without taking things apart ? I'm guessing not. Anywhere else I should look ? thanks everyone for your input.

 

[Cheflen]

up date.......I did buy a spark tester. The spark jumps the same as the running gti. The gti is in the garage and the spx is outside so I had a friend hold a "tent" over the spark tester while testing. I've tested the stator at the black and black/red wire and it's good. I replaced the mpem and the rectifier. The timing mark on the stator is right on. For the hell of it, I did swap coils. I put in new plugs. I checked compression and its the same as the gti. The gauge reads about 95psi from both skis. I know the correct compression should be 130-150 psi. My gauge is at the end of a 22in hose which should make the reading lower. And the gti starts no problem. I put new gas in a coffee can attached a clear hose to the input of the carbs. I tried to start the ski and it turns over like nobody's business. I can see the gas drawing into the carbs and the spark plugs end up wet. I backed out the low adjusting screws 1 1/4 turns and just cracked open the high adjusting screws. I forgot to check voltage while cranking though. I will when it stops raining. If that checks out, what's left ? The only thing I know of is the rotary valve ? Is there a way to check it without taking things apart ? I'm guessing not. Anywhere else I should look ? thanks everyone for your input.

I had the same issue with my 95 sp, had spark, had fuel with high pressure, perfect compression (freshly rebuilt motor) and my problem was the rotary timing. This was much easier than I thought it would be. I had the carbs and everything still hooked up, and I just took off the 4 bolts to the rotary valve cover and I set the timing by just eyeing it down based on what the manual would say. Which was bring the mag piston to TDC and then from the image I saw that you put the bottom of the rotary valve opening just below the intake on the mag cylinder side. Took me about 10 minutes. As soon as I bolted it together, it fired right up.

 

[danskone_2000]

Been away a bit. Hope to get back to it Monday. Cheflen, my machine ran once, Never taken any part of the motor apart. Was it the same case for you ? Did the timing move somehow in your case ?.. I did replace the stator. I did line up the timing marks when I installed the new one. Could the rotary valve have moved while I had the stator off ? Or is the timing of the rotary valve and stator even related ??

 

[Cheflen]

Been away a bit. Hope to get back to it Monday. Cheflen, my machine ran once, Never taken any part of the motor apart. Was it the same case for you ? Did the timing move somehow in your case ?.. I did replace the stator. I did line up the timing marks when I installed the new one. Could the rotary valve have moved while I had the stator off ? Or is the timing of the rotary valve and stator even related ??

No it's different. The rotary valve only lets the air fuel mixture into the engine. My timing was off because I had the engine rebuilt and the timing was not correctly put on

 

[danskone_2000]

cheflen, then in my case, if the rotary valve is in tact it should be fine. I noticed today that my ski was built in 95 but classified as a 96 ? so Im thinking it was built late in 95. 95's were model 5874 and 96's are model 5877. how do I tell for sure what model I have. I don't see any id on the ski ??? The mpem part number is different for the 2 models. Maybe I have the wrong mpem ? would that make it not start ?? any help is always appreciated. thanks

 

[mikidymac]

THe last two digits of the VIN is the year of your ski.

 

[danskone_2000]

Mystery solved. I took the cover off to access the rotary valve. It looked fine. For the hell of it I was going to check if it was installed correctly. I turned the motor by hand and realized the rotary valve was not turning. So a stripped gear, broken shaft or something inside is not right. Thanks everyone for the input.