1994 gtx issues

[JoeyDeluca]

Hello all, I'm new here but Everytime I look something up about my PWC I always can find the answer here, so in short, I had to join. Here's the low down, I bought this ski earlier this summer and it needed a lot of help. Engine was fine just partially taken apart, impeller needed help and the outside was rough. I did all the work myself and I was so excited to get it out on the water today since I had a day off. I was less than thrilled about my experience to say the least. I had it running on the trailer for about 5 mins to make sure everything was up to par and then I moved it out and tied to the dock alongside the ramp. Everything seemed to be good and everything holding well and sounded ok. Now when I took off it didn't want to go right away, it hesitated some to i blipped the choke and off she went. Got up on plane great and fast and at WOT it all seemed great and actually quite fast. Did a u turn to go past the ramp and then did another u turn to go back to the ramp. This is where my problem starts, it acted like it ran out of fuel and shut off. I panicked and when I hit the starter all I heard was 1 clunk. Like the starter engaged and didn't turn over, I thought I seized the engine and was at the mercy of the current. Waited about 30 seconds to a minute and hit the starter again and it spun free and started up again, little boggy but got it back up on plane and it quit again, but this time I was able to crank the engine still, so it started again and I limped it back to the boat launch with it bogging the whole way. Got home pulled the plugs and one was a pretty light tan color and the other was nearly black with some tan on the side of the insulator. Can anyone give me some guidance as what to check next? I'm afraid to take it back out again till everything is squared away.
Here's a list of everything I did before I put it in the water:
-new fuel lines
-cleaned carbs
-cleaned fuel selector
-drained gas/replaced with fresh gas
-tested oil pump
-compression check (130 closest to bow, 135 Closest to stern)
-new plugs
-new intake/carb gasket
-rotary valve check and made sure at right degree
-fuel baffle checked
-new injection oil

Spark was strong on both cylinders, the only thing Im not 100% about is tuning the carbs, I don't this I have them set exactly right, I think I'm near the ballpark.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated, if you need pictures or a better detail of what happened or of something just ask and I'll answer ASAP. Thank you :thumbsup:

 

[JoeyDeluca]

I didn't realized I rambled so much, sorry about that I just kept typing.

 

[Mickirig1]

REad Read REAd on carbs and fuel supply on this site. Fuel supply is the biggest problem with the 2 stroke skis. You may be sucking air somewhere. A pressure tester can be your friend on this search! Pop off has to be correct for your year Ski and engine.

 

[JoeyDeluca]

Where can I get a pop off pressure tester and also do you know what the pop off should be for that year and engine?

 

[RodInEscondido]

These 2 links as well as lots of info on this site have been helpful for me
http://www.seadoosource.com/mikunitests.html
http://www.seadoosource.com/carbreference.html

I did not see you mention the primary fuel filter/water separator ... historical source for fuel restriction and air leaks.

have fun

 

[Mickirig1]

Don't worry about rambling on. The more info we have, the easier it is to give solutions. ODS Sea Doo parts has the pressure tester for $25. You just need a bike pump to supply air pressure. Like I said above, read, read, read on carbs, testing and adjustment. The Sticky above on carb adjustments has a huge amount of info in it.
Once you get pressure tester. Check sections of your fuel lines. First check should be your pump diaphram. You can get bad parts right out of the box. Test your check valves too. Hint: Low pressure is your mouth sucking and blowing. See tricks on rebuilding carbs posting. This maybe of help. Once you get the XP running ,you will fall in love with the machine! Keep at it! There's always next summer.

 

[JoeyDeluca]

Thank you guys, I'm going to pick up a pressure tester and have at it, I'm going to convice myself not to take it out this summer so I don't rush things and get stuck again. Just out of curiosity what would have caused the engine to act like it's stuck like that and then be fine in 1 min?

 

[Mickirig1]

An Intermitant problem, that is hard to find. If it was me I would bypass the water seperator/ fuel filter. They cause a bunch of problems. Bad gaskets, cracked housing and clogs. Your tank selector may have a bad O-ring or be clogged. Like I said pressure test sections of the system. I did a month and a half search. Found it was the water seperator/fuel filter. My Ski 13 now runs a full ski lenght ahead of it's sister Ski 12. Check all your hose connections too. Might have a loose one. Twist them when checking. Some clamps fail just for the hell of it! Look at the pulse line too. It may be loose or cracked. replace with regular fuel line with no kinks.

 

[Coastiejoe]

Mick fought a fuel issue for a LONG time. Did everything you could think of. Follow his advice and you will solve this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RodInEscondido]

When chasing air leaks in the fuel delivery circuit on these old skis (all I got) I have found it very helpful to use a vacuum pump (like in brake bleeder). Start at the carb and work backwards toward the fuel tank if you see bubbles.

 

[Mickirig1]

My Problem Ski 13 would run great after I got air off of a swell. My oldest son and I spent 15 minutes jumping 4 - 5 foot swells on Lake Erie. Coastiejoe can tell you what the lake is like. The jumps were sealing the gasket and making it run right. As soon as it lost the sealing from the bounched up gas it ran like a dog! Drove me NUTS! Till the testing found it! I have wrenched for 40 years and I love fixing these machines! Like Kevin told me, I will ride them till I am way too old to.

 

[JoeyDeluca]

Mick, what gasket was causing the problem? And I'm guessing it was a little too lean, sucking air so it would bog out?

 

[Mickirig1]

It could be the gas filter / water seperator gasket. Could be a loose clamped connection some where. A cracked tube in your tank / gas gage sensor.Test the fuel selector. A bad O ring could cause air sucking. A cut in a line. A crack in your inline fuel filter. That's why I say to check a section at a time. With the pressure tester. You have to get it to run too. That's why I say to prime it with gas. You can be hours trying to get it to suck gas with just the starter. Once I got Ski 13 to run right. It runs a full Ski lenght ahead of it's sister Ski 12. With all the cleaning and rebuilding I did!

 

[JoeyDeluca]

Do I check the fuel system with pressure or with vaccum? I'm guessing vaccum because of it's sucking air I would be able to watch the pressure drop if a section is faulty. Anyone know tricks to getting the carbs off the 650? Mine are the four 13 mm nuts that hold it in with no clearance. I'm getting tired of taking the rotary valve cover off. While we are on the topic, could that be a location of air getting into the engine since I removed that plate many times and havnt replaced it?

 

[RodInEscondido]

There are plus and minus for either pressure or vacuum tests. I believe the pressure tests are covered in the service manual. I am kinda a vacuum guy (no Lou, not because I "suck") because if I hook the vacuum pump/gauge to the last possible place before the carb and there is fuel in the tank I should see no air bubbles in the line when applying a small amount of vacuum.

I do not have anything with a 650 so am reluctant to give any specific advice. In general tho, if removing the carbs I strongly advise putting a bunch of stuff underneath to catch the nut/washer you drop while balancing stuff. Amazing the stuff that disappears under the engine and in some disaster cases into the engine.

 

[JoeyDeluca]

No bubbles = no leaks, bubbles = leaks, got it. I plan on taking the carbs off soon and doing everything while their off hopefully for the last time. Any other suggestions to check while I have parts off the engine?

 

[Mickirig1]

The flat gasket on the water seperator / fuel filter in the front of the Ski. It would run great up to 3/4 throttle. Full WOT, it would drop right off after like 5 seconds. It had started sucking air at that point.
Use the line pinchers to isolate sections of line at a time. I used a pressure tester. It drops pressure you found it. Start with the pulse line, pump diarphram test. Read what I have posted. Sometimes you just have to start back at all the basic tests.

 

[JoeyDeluca]

So in the process of pulling the fuel lines to remove the carb, I noticed a orange colored fuel. Looks like old fuel but where did this come from? I cleaned the carbs, replaced all the fuel lines and cleaned out the gas tank! Looking into the gas tank it's that light yellow clear color, when I pulled all the Orange fuel out it was maybe about 6 oz then went back to clear. Could this be part of my carb problems?

 

[Mickirig1]

Could be water that has rusted something. Maybe gas with regular red fuel Stabilizer in it. One thing I noticed not done? Have you rebuilt the carbs? At least the fuel pump section? I did read all your posts and never saw carb rebuilds. Cleaning but not rebuilds? All the parts will get tired and not function where they should. Check valves, pump diaphrams and back flow check valves need to be functioning right. If not done, I would rebuild the carbs. they can pass the tests, but if the pump really putting enough pressure/flow out? The two strokes are real beasts when running right. Fuel deliverly makes all the differance. They live and die by it. The oil goes with it when all the ratio's are right.

 

[JoeyDeluca]

I havnt rebuilt them because they seemed to be in good condition and all the seals looked good, but I just purchased 2 kits to rebuild them so I have the piece of mind that the seals are perfect, when I did a pop off pressure test I had air escaping from between the pulse plate and the check valve plate, so there could have been my air leak that caused it to run lean. I feel like such a dope for not rebuilding them the first 3 times I had them off...:facepalm:

 

[Mickirig1]

Live and learn. I chased my Ski 13's problem for a month and a half. That's why I learned so much about the fuel systems and carbs. I spent a good 24 hours reading about fuel systems and carbs. It can drive you crazy! Lie awake at night thinking about it!