HI Everyone, Looking for some help. My 1994 GTS will not turn over. I have a good fully charged battery. When I hit the start button, nothing happens. Here is what is going on in the electrical box. My solenoid has the 4 terminals (Two Large and Two small). 3 of the 4 posts have 12V to them, constant power. Even with the lanyard off. Is that normal? I'm wondering if the MPEM might be bad? The starter does enguage when I arc the two large posts. Thank you for your advice!
Almost fixed- 1994 GTS No Start- Bad stop button?
- Thread starter Dredust
- Start date
artr
Well-Known Member
In a schematic for you are 94GTS in the shop manual. it shows that the start solenoid has a 12 V signal going to one of the top solenoid posts and 12V to one lower post. The other lower post has wires from the MPEM that probably get grounded to enable the solenoid. I would check that your start button and your safety lanyard are providing the proper signals to your MPEM so it will ground the control wire on the solenoid to crank the starter. You can also take the start solenoid out and independently test it by putting 12 volts and ground on the lower Posts and checking that the solonoid clicks and shorts the 2 upper posts together.
Venturian1
Member
The two large posts: One fat red wire to the starter, and the other to the battery +, so its hot all the time, and should be the only terminal with 1`2V. One of the smaller terminals will be black going to ground, usually at the IG coil, and the other small post will have the start button's wire, maybe yellow/red. Sometimes the battery terminal also has a M-size red wire, inline fuse.
artr
Well-Known Member
If the schematic is accurate, then it shows 1 larger top post directly connected to +12V battery terminal and 1 smaller lower post with the yellow/red stripe wire connected through a 5A fuse directly to the +12V battery terminal. Those 2 posts by definition are always at +12V. The other smaller lower solenoid terminal (lower left in your picture) needs to be grounded to activate the start solenoid. Looking closer at the schematic, the STOP button is normally closed and connects ground to one side of the SAFETY switch which is normally open. When the safety lanyard is attached it closes the SAFETY switch and supplies ground to one side of the normally open START switch. Pressing the START switch supplies ground to the other smaller lower solenoid terminal to activate the solenoid. When the START button is released, that lower smaller solenoid terminal is connected to a black/white stripe wire connected to the MPEM and will show whatever voltage the MPEM holds it at. I am not sure if that lower smaller terminal (lower left in your picture) goes to +12v or just floats as an open circuit. You should check that the START, SAFETY and STOP switches function properly and are wired correctly before suspecting the MPEM. Do you get the 2 beeps when you put the safety lanyard on?
Venturian1
Member
I don't think he's going to get two beeps, as this is not a DESS lanyard type, the lanyard just holds the button in, so it stays closed. there's only two wires to it, not three. I just looked at the schematic and Artr, you're absolutely correct.... start button is normally open circuit, same with the safety switch where the lanyard connects, but the stop button is normally closed. Also, the schematic shows that one large terminal of the starter solenoid connects directly to the battery, and the small red wire from it powers everything -through the two fuses (15A & 5A). Now, downstream of the 5A fuse is a yel/red wire supplying battery voltage to one side of the primary winding of the solenoid, so there should be two always hot wires on the solenoid. An easy check is put a volt meter on the smaller terminals and push the start button, you should see 12v. If not, a bad wire, switch, connection, mpem, or wires are crossed somewhere. If you do get 12V, the solenoid should make a loud clack. if so, problem is the starter if the big wires are all good, clean, and tight. The ground should be checked too. being at the bottom, corrosion could get to it.
All wires should be soft and pliable, and no swelling or blue stuff around the ends. Stiff wires should be treated like stiff fuel hose... replaced!
always solder and use marine grade heat shrink tubing when repairing wiring. if the copper inside is not bright and shinny, trim it back until it is. Solder won't stick to discolored copper without acid cleaning first, but then neutralizing the acid is necessary. better to replace with new instead!
Continuity checks of wire can be deceiving. I've ran across wires that looked fine on the outside, but inside, were deteriorated and the strands turning into powder. With just a few strands still intact, you'll get continuity, but there will not be enough amperage flow to do much good.
Hope this helps someone. took me a long time to figure this shit out by trial and error.
-Don
Ventura
97 GTi, GSX, GSi, 2000 GTi, and 98 GTS
All wires should be soft and pliable, and no swelling or blue stuff around the ends. Stiff wires should be treated like stiff fuel hose... replaced!
always solder and use marine grade heat shrink tubing when repairing wiring. if the copper inside is not bright and shinny, trim it back until it is. Solder won't stick to discolored copper without acid cleaning first, but then neutralizing the acid is necessary. better to replace with new instead!
Continuity checks of wire can be deceiving. I've ran across wires that looked fine on the outside, but inside, were deteriorated and the strands turning into powder. With just a few strands still intact, you'll get continuity, but there will not be enough amperage flow to do much good.
Hope this helps someone. took me a long time to figure this shit out by trial and error.
-Don
Ventura
97 GTi, GSX, GSi, 2000 GTi, and 98 GTS
Venturian1
Member
If you disconnect the black/white wire from the lower post, and ground the post, the starter should turn the engine over.
Thank you Don, This is very helpful! I will check all of your directions. And to see if the ground wire is clean and attached like you mentioned. I appreciate your trial and error. Tha will save me lots of time on my end... I hope.
Yes, that did turn over the motor. Does that mean the solenoid is good? Maybe it means that I have a ground problem? I'll start tracing all the wires now.
I ALMOST have this fixed. It looks like the "stop button" was the problem. After following all of you awesome instructions I made great progress. Here is the current issue. I puchased an aftermarket "Stop Button". The ski only starts in this order: Lanyard cap on, press the green start switch, then it will start and run while holding in the stop button (I released the green start button after it turns over). It turns off after letting go of the stop button. The stop button is doing the opposite of what is is ment to do. From what I can tell, all of the wires match up. Could this just be a cheap aftermarket stop button issue?
thank you-
thank you-
artr
Well-Known Member
The STOP button is supposed to be normally closed meaning it will supply a ground connection to the SAFETY switch without being pressed and remove that ground connection when it is pressed. From your description it is supplying that ground when you press the STOP button. If the new STOP button has 3 connection points then you have it wired incorrectly (need to use the common and NC connections). If it only has 2 connection points then it is not the correct switch for your ski.
Paul gts
Member
I've tried to find a nos "stop" button for my wife's 94 gts last year and found a decent used one. Now building her a 94 gtx and having the same issue. I have a nos coming from the UK . Anything out there on the internet says "START/STOP" button. These are wrong for anything with a dashboard green start button. I have no idea why no one makes a new "STOP" button . I reached out to mikidymac and Dr. Honda with no response so I'm at a loss on the reason why no one makes a new one. Good luck Dredust
Try OSd Seadoo. Part of the issue is the older ones are the opposite function of the newer ones, normally open vs. normally closed, or vise versa, and the cheap remakes don't get this correct.
Paul gts
Member
Ok , thanks, I'll give them a try.
