98 GTS not getting fuel to carb.

[X-roads]

PWC: 98 GTS (717 Rotax)

Problem: Ski will start with mix added manually to carb, but will not run. I have isolated that fuel is not getting to carb.

As background I have rebuilt the carb so the fuel pump is not the issue. I have blown out the lines and they are clear. I have cleaned the selector valve. The inline fuel filter is clean. The check valve is working and the system holds pressure.

So, the feeder line is not getting primed which usually indicates a bad diaphram, a blocked line, a clogged filter, a clogged valve or the system not holding pressure, but all of these check out.:banghead:

Oddly, when I blew into the return line, it pressurizes the lines but no gas is advanced into the feeder. I know this is usually the way to check this. And yes, there's gas in the tank. It's not full but it has a few inches of gas in it. When I release the feeder line, only air comes out the the system decompresses but it's not sucking gas. So, what am I missing here?

 

[timmyboy76]

the "return" line should be on the top fitting of the carb, fuel line on bottom fitting. Re-check ur pulse line and clamps, have ur gas cap open.

Did you "rebuild" the carb/s or just go thru them?..if rebuillt, did you replace the springs in the n/s assy, if so...re-install the ones you replaced.

 

[X-roads]

It was professionally done by a shop. Please explain "recheck your pulse line".

 

[SRUSH]

The pulse line goes from the crank case to carb and it is what draws the fuel from tank if it is restricted or not on it wont draw fuel

 

[X-roads]

First thanks. Yeah, I get that, and my question was how to check, but I think I can remove the line on the crank case side, prime the carb with some mix, turn the engine over and feel the end to see if I can get it to suck/blow...right?

 

[SRUSH]

pretty sure you can just pull from carb and crank and feel end. doesnt have to be running i dont think. i replaced the lines on mine and when i cut new one it was a little to long or something because when the curves set in on their own in the line one curve collapsed its self and was basicly like a kinked garden hose.

 

[X-roads]

Ok, here's an update that answers a few things and brings more questions.

I pulled the pulse line off, turned it over and it spattered black oily fuel-smelling stuff. Truth be told, it's been sitting a long time and I really don't have a good story on what caused the breakdown. my daughter was riding it at the time; I never felt like I got the whole story...

Anyway, that can't be good, right?

 

[SRUSH]

it can damage the diaphram in the carb, but i think you can pull the line and crank it out and re try.

 

[X-roads]

Nevermind. Did some quick reading and made a phone call. I guess it's normal since there's oil in the rotary gear assembly and it's isolated since it's sealed off on the backside of the diaphragm. So back to square one. Yes then, I have pulse...

 

[roneagan@cfl.rr.com]

I had a similar problem with a 95 ski, turns out the screen at the bottom of the fuel baffle was not leting enough fuel flow.. Pull the baffel and take a look, I just cut mine out.. There are two additional filters, one in line and the one in the carbs so the screen in the bottom of the baffle is just an additional filter..

 

[X-roads]

Thanks for chiming in. Yeah, that's the weird thing; I've looked at every filter along the way including the one at the base of the baffle. It appears to be fine, but I'm still gettin' nothin'!:banghead:

 

[SRUSH]

is it the same fuel filter that came with the ski? if so i had one leaking air in from the cap. go to auto zone or lowes and get a little clear inline for a lawn mower. run fuel line straight out of res on baffle to filter to carb makes less line to draw thruogh and eliminates selector and retry. and make sure pulse line does not kink when you put it on both ends. i know its frustrating ive had 3 of these to work on all summer long ive done more work than ridin.

 

[timmyboy76]

you double check the hoses at the tank? think its something stupid, dude.

 

[X-roads]

Well, one problem solved. She runs but barely...

I finally just sucked on the line to prime it (yummy!) and then primed the bowl, but it still stopped after a bit. Then I thought of something...

It turns out the idiot that worked on it last hooked up the fuel lines backwards! (Thanks TB67, but I got your post while I was writing this.) Once I switched them it would run and sustain, but rough and I can't give it any gas. I could see what appeared to be too much gas (or something building up) in the bowl. After about 2 minutes it eventually stopped; I figured it was probably flooded.

A little history. When I took it in to have the carb redone the guy told me afterward when he couldn't get it running that he thought I had a stripped rotary gear and should replace the motor. I'm didn't know much about these engines so I wasn't really sure what he was thinking. The whole thing got me very discouraged. I don't know if he was right on or way off. Some how I didn't trust what he was saying. In the end it had multiple issues which I worked out myself (failing starter compounded by failing battery). I replaced both which brings us to the present issue.

...I just went out to look at it and now I'm really scared to ask this next part. I had been running water through the hookup while I was trying to start it of course. I shut off the water for a minute which made everything quite. I could hear a sound down inside the throttle body and could see fluid. When I went to start it, it labored (single click on the starter) twice. Checked the battery and it read 12 volts. Hmm. Tried it again and it cranked...which sent a mixture of fuel and WATER flying up out of the carb!! Is he right about the rotary gear after all? Whatever it is, it can't be good. I think my baby girl destroyed my favorite toy.

 

[timmyboy76]

no worry

remove the plugs, put the plug boots on the grounding posts (has orange cover on it, off the mag housing), then hit start button. Get all the crap outta there, then once you think its gone, install plugs, and have at it. Might need to install/remove a few times, to clean the tips off..it'll have brown, milky sh** on it...it will eventually crab...keep the choke out, and NO THROTTLE, along with NO WATER to flush spigot, until ALL is cleared out.

If the carbs/rv cover never been removed, then the rv plate cant be screwed up, unless it stripped the gear, in which, it wont work/fire at all.

 

[X-roads]

She did tell me that she had to be towed, which I understand is a big no-no, at least over a certain speed. Maybe that's how it got inside. So are you saying I don't have a cracked cylinder wall or something bad like that?

 

[timmyboy76]

go thru the steps, what I posted, then see what happens. If yor worried about that, you still need to expell the water, then do a compression test.

 

[X-roads]

Well this is definitely worth the price of admission.:hurray:

Wow, what a mess! I could have used a tip about an umbrella maybe, but I can just see you now :rofl:. I'm a mess, the ski's a mess, the driveway is a mess! I feel well initiated! I'm off to the shower while the battery gets a charge. It won't quite turn over, but I think it's just a bit too low now. Thanks and I'll keep you posted.

 

[SRUSH]

just to be sure you started motor then turned on hose then turned off hose then motor in that order right? i just read the part about running water while trying to start part...

 

[X-roads]

Nope. Turned on hose, started, ran. Engine stopped. Turned off hose and then turned over once with no success. I think I see where you're going. I don't run it without water. Is that what you though?

Btw, could I hook up to my car to continue while my battery is charging if I disconnect the + cable on the ski? I get the thing about compounding charging systems. I know it has the right voltage, but will it have enough amps to crank it over?

 

[roneagan@cfl.rr.com]

You can jump it with another battery,, JUST BE SURE THE CAR IS NOT RUNNING!!! You should have been warned about the volcano..LOL.. first time it happned to me it was all oil from a ski that had been sitting for a few years.. I was out side too, so the mess was just all over my truck and the parking lot a the shop..

 

[X-roads]

K, so why won't it crank now. It's a new starter and fully charged battery. It does the famous single click. Cranks fine with the plugs out of course.

 

[SRUSH]

Nope. Turned on hose, started, ran. Engine stopped. Turned off hose and then turned over once with no success. I think I see where you're going. I don't run it without water. Is that what you though?

Btw, could I hook up to my car to continue while my battery is charging if I disconnect the + cable on the ski? I get the thing about compounding charging systems. I know it has the right voltage, but will it have enough amps to crank it over?

no bro where i was going is if you turn the hose on without the ski running first is you WILL flood the engine with water. you have to start then water then water off then engine off

 

[X-roads]

Wow. Believe it or not, never new that. So as I said, now I have the plugs back in and a fully charged battery...but it won't turn over. What's up with that now?

 

[SRUSH]

Are you sure you have all of the water out? Pull plugs and make sure that you have it all out