97 XP hydrolocking and running poorly

[thomas0202]

I just purchased a 97 XP this past weekend and now that I've got it home and looking it over there are a few issues with it. Where I bought it there wasn't any water to test run it on within reasonable driving distance so I had to rely on my knowledge and running it on the hose. Background on the ski was it was a neighbor's of the person I bought it from. It was flipped and they never got the water out of the motor so it locked up. The guy was given it to fix up and spent a lot of time on it. It's got a reman motor in it, the absolute cleanest inside a hull I've ever seen, exterior in near perfect shape, new battery, mostly new fuel lines (ones between carbs are still original), new starter, new rectifier, and a few more odds and ends. He had every intent to keep it and use it but life happened and he decided to sell it. I heard it run on the hose and it had quick response to the throttle. Smoked pretty heavily but my experience with these is that's common after its been sitting awhile and then clears up so I didn't think much of it. With how clean it was and the amount of new parts on it I decided to buy it. Came with a double trailer as well. The guy said the carbs were original and that it acted sometimes like it needed to just be run good and hard to clear them out or rebuild them. Fired it up a few times over the weekend and it always started and ran just fine. Towed it home 6 hours and added some oil and gas to take it out for a ride and it wouldn't turn over. Pull the plugs and spin it over and the mag cylinder pukes right much liquid out. Never made the distinction of fuel or oil since I wanted to ride it. Got it running and took it out on the water. Was constantly a pain to start. Acted like it was flooded all the time. When I did get it running it had a hard time idling without keeping a little throttle on it. When you got up to go it would bog down and run rough but if you jammed the throttle full it would take off fine and run really well. Sorry for the extensive post I just wanted to make sure I gave enough background.

I know I need to swap the rest of the fuel lines regardless, but do you all think the carbs will need to be gone through or just me run the hell out of it to blow them out? Also with the hydrolocking not showing up all weekend but does shortly after I added fuel and oil ( fuel tank was next to empty and oil tank was about a 1/4 tank) do you think I've got leaking crank/RV seals with now having the extra oil volume or leaking needles/seats in the carbs now that there's fuel in the tank? The smoke did clear up with warming up and riding.

I don't mind doing some work to it to make it run right. I feel like I'm in it at a point where I can spend some on it and not begin to waste money on it.

Thanks

 

[Jeffspx]

Do a compression test to confirm the state of the motor first.
Then yes, finish fuel lines and definitely rebuild carbs. Use only genuine mikuni parts, after market kits will only cause more problems. Taking it out to run it because the previous owner thought it "needed to be run" sounds like a sure fire way to burn up the motor.
As for hydrolocking, its hard to say. My guess would be water, suggesting you have a cooling passage leak, but without knowing whether it was fuel or water blowing out of the plug hole, cant say yet.
EDIT: re reading ypur post and you mention the thought or RV crank seals. Has your oil level dropped a lot without running it?

 

[mikidymac]

A carb issue will never fix itself or "blow out". You are going to have to rebuild the carbs with genuine Mikuni parts. It sounds like your needle and seats are leaking and flooding the engine.

 

[thomas0202]

Do a compression test to confirm the state of the motor first.
Then yes, finish fuel lines and definitely rebuild carbs. Use only genuine mikuni parts, after market kits will only cause more problems. Taking it out to run it because the previous owner thought it "needed to be run" sounds like a sure fire way to burn up the motor.
As for hydrolocking, its hard to say. My guess would be water, suggesting you have a cooling passage leak, but without knowing whether it was fuel or water blowing out of the plug hole, cant say yet.
EDIT: re reading ypur post and you mention the thought or RV crank seals. Has your oil level dropped a lot without running it?

It's definitely not water since it wasn't in the water or hooked to the hose. Just trying to fire it off for a second to make sure it would run before taking it to the ramp. I haven't checked the oil level yet today. When I get home I'll take a look.

 

[thomas0202]

A carb issue will never fix itself or "blow out". You are going to have to rebuild the carbs with genuine Mikuni parts. It sounds like your needle and seats are leaking and flooding the engine.

Is it possible for them to leak enough they hydrolock the engine?

 

[thomas0202]

The ski also has a K&N filter on it instead of the stock airbox. I have a stock airbox from our old 95 xp that I can probably slap on it if that would make a difference.

 

[mikidymac]

Flooding with fuel can hydrolock the engine.
Ditch the K&N as they suck and will not flow air when wet. Use the stock airbox and jetting specs.

 

[thomas0202]

Messed around with the ski last night. Oil tank level looked like it didn't move. Only reason I'm not 100% sure is because I didn't mark it. Spun the ski over and it spun over no problem. Turned the fuel on and all of a sudden it wouldn't turn over. Press the button and a good clunk and then no more turning. Pulled the plugs and it spins over fine. No vapor shooting out or anything. Put plugs back in and same thing with not turning over. Saw the positive to the starter was sparking so I tightened that thinking that was the issue. Engine spun over just fine but immediately when I turned the fuel back on it wouldn't turn over.

The ski had no issues whatsoever before I towed it 6 hours home on Sunday. It bounced around a whole lot on the trailer since the trailer wasn't adjusted properly for the ski. It makes me wonder if the bouncing is what let the oil into the engine to hydrolock it before and now may have shaken a battery connection loose or something in the electrical box up front. Everytime over the weekend the ski would beep twice when I put the key in and now it seems to be hit or miss if it beeps. Always allows it to start though. Previous owner said sometimes the key didn't seem like it made great connection so I'm wondering if I need a new DESS post.

 

[Jeffspx]

If your getting a clunk from the starter, it may not be a dess issue. I believe if dess Does not make the connection, the mpem wouldnt even try to actuate the starter. How is your battery? Could just be so weak that it will only crank with the plugs out.

 

[tingraham]

Sounds like needle and seat possibly combined with needing to rebuild your starter. It's not a DESS issue as you wouldn't even get a clunk or any cranking if the DESS was screwed up.

 

[mikidymac]

Alos keep in mind the 1997 XP has very long battery cables so there is a large chance for high resistance. I have seen a few 1997 XP's that the junt Walmart batteries would not even crank over when new. You have to have a strong battery, cables and connections on these.

 

[thomas0202]

Update on the seadoo now that I've had some time to work on it. Swapped the new starter out with the original one the P.O took out. Starts up no problem now. Beeping still intermittent but never causes a starting issue. Pulled the carbs out to check the internal filters since I haven't gotten my rebuild kits in yet. Filters looked brand new. Found the low speed screws to be adjusted what I thought was too far out so I set them both to 1-1/4 out. Threw the carbs back on and adjusted the idle and oil pump and it runs really well on the trailer. Still running the K&N by the way. Took it out over the weekend and put it in at a friends private ramp so I could tune it a little. Didn't make any adjustments on the trailer since it seemed responsive and idled right at 1500 pumping water. Push it off the trailer and we rode it for a good hour and a half or more. Ran really really well from what I could tell. If you ran it off idle for a few seconds and then punched it it would kind of stumble and act like it wanted to die but if you let off it would recover and take off. Seemed to be running just fine in the higher rpms. Met up with some friends and floated for awhile and when we go to start it back up it never wanted to fire. Held wide open to see if it was flooding but it would fire and die right out. After a few attempts it quit turning over like the battery was dead. Towed it in and sure enough the battery was low. Charged it up and now it runs fine. Put my meter on the battery with it on the hose and I'm getting 13.8 volts on the new and old rectifier so the battery is being charged. My best guess is the battery was just weak from all the running on the hose and frequent starts with the bad starter/connections. It's a Walmart battery but it's an AGM. Seadoo still smokes like a freight train when it starts up after sitting more than a day or so. When I had the carbs off it didn't look like there was any oil leaking in the mag side crankcase so I'm wondering if the oil injector on that side is leaking and over oiling. Mag cylinder plug was also black and wet with what smelled like oil after that long ride. I'll attach the pictures of the plugs to see what you all think. P.O was using what I think is cheap TC-W3 oil in the ski. I plan to drain that out and swap over to API-TC stuff here soon.

 

[mikidymac]

The sooner you can get that crap oil out the better. The smoking at cold start is a bad crank seal but some have had it go away by switching to the correct API-TC Full Synthetic oil.

I would also ditch the K&N and get a stock aircleaner. The 1997 XP is known to take on quite a bit of water and a wet K&N will not flow any air. The stock carb settings are also calibrated for the increased vacuum of the stock air cleaner so if it was not rejetted for the K&N you will get that flat spot you are describing.

 

[thomas0202]

The sooner you can get that crap oil out the better. The smoking at cold start is a bad crank seal but some have had it go away by switching to the correct API-TC Full Synthetic oil.

I would also ditch the K&N and get a stock aircleaner. The 1997 XP is known to take on quite a bit of water and a wet K&N will not flow any air. The stock carb settings are also calibrated for the increased vacuum of the stock air cleaner so if it was not rejetted for the K&N you will get that flat spot you are describing.

I had heard that the K&Ns aren't really best option. I figured start looking for a stock air cleaner and change over to that. My plan now is air cleaner, flush and replace the oil, and carb rebuild. Seem like a solid plan?

 

[mikidymac]

Seems like a great plan.Westside Powersports can provide everything you need. Westside Powersports Link

 

[thomas0202]

Start the seadoo up last night and the low oil light came on. I opened the hood on it and saw the oil reservoir was a lot lower than when I last checked it. It cranked for awhile before it finally hit and that was only with popping the throttle to add fuel with the accelerator pump to start it. When it did it fogged out the whole yard. The crank seals probably are shot but one day I did clamp off the oil line to the rotary bath and still managed to get oil in the motor. How do you go about testing the check valves on the oil injectors? Wondering if one of them is leaking down when the ski is off and filling the case with oil. If I'm about to flush the oil system out and fill with more expensive stuff I don't want it being wasted.

 

[thomas0202]

Got an airbox on it and before I go out to ride I found about 1/2 quart or more of oil in the bilge of the ski. I'm definitely getting excessive oil in the motor but I also think a lot is going into the hull as well. Where are the common leak points for the oil system? Also when I did go run the ski it seemed to cavitate real bad if you went full throttle from idle. The PO said he never touched the pump and didn't know this history on it so would it be safe to assume I need a wear ring and a carbon seal?

 

[thomas0202]

Seems like a great plan.Westside Powersports can provide everything you need. Westside Powersports Link

Out riding yesterday and the ski was running really well at 1/2 throttle or less. Finally decided to open her up wide open and it ran really strong but felt like it wasn't pulling away so hard. Probably has something to do with my cavitation on takeoff as well. Running it wide open she just shut off. Once I came to a stop I tried to restart it and it just clunked. Tried it again and it turned over great but wouldn't fire unless I held it wide open and even then it would only run a few seconds and then just slow itself to a stop and shut down. Did that a few time to make it the last few feet to the house and shut it off and lifted it out of the water. Am I right to assume that was a lean seize and that I've got either a high speed lean condition or for some reason I'm losing oil? I'm gonna get this solved before I ride it again to avoid ruining the motor.