97 SPX won't run in water

[IDoSeaDoo]

Hello all, I'm new to this Forum and hope someone out there can help my desperate situation. I recently bought a 97 SPX (my dream jet ski since I was 14). It ran great for a few weeks until my wrist pin self destructed and killed my engine. I made the mistake of buying a used one off craigslist, the owner of which claimed it ran.

After receiving it and replacing the wrist pin bearings in it, I reassembled it and put it back in my ski. The previous engine ran w/ no issues, carbs were fine, fuel lines/selector switch were fine, everything worked.

The new engine has compression of 135/140. I replaced the rotary valve shaft gear, as the old one had way too much play. Sure enough, it seemed pretty chewed up. Rotary valve has proper clearance and is timed to 147deg BTDC (according to manual).

Problem: The new engine starts and runs on the trailer, but when I try to open up the throttle really fast from idle, it sort of stumbles, revs and smokes blue. In the water, I managed to get it started, it ran, never got up to full speed, and then started to bog. Now it won't start in the water. Occasionally, it will almost start, then sneeze a backfire (sounds likemaybe through the carbs). On the trailer, it cranking it, it coughed out 2 liters of water once. Starts on trailer, but smokes when revving. Also, I noticed that it has a tiny little water leak from the exhaust pipe at the plug weld (leaks a little jet into the hull).

Is this ski sucking in water into the exhaust and choking itself? Are the crank seals blown? What are the symptoms/effects of blown crank seals?

Please help, this has been a nightmare for me for like 2 months now.

 

[Bills86e]

Is that "little jet" pissing on the MPEM?

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

little jet doesn't seem to be the problem

The small exhaust pipe leak shoots a little stream of water straight down onto the front motor mount. It's on the "fix eventually" list of small things to chase down. Was messing with it again yesterday. I ran it without water for a very short time, however it took a while for me get it started. After having taken it to the lake earlier yesterday morning, in the afternoon it seemed like it had to clear quite a bit of water from the exhaust before it would fire up and run for any amount of time. At first I thought that the exhaust was filling up with water, so I took off the rubber exhaust outlet pipe and watched it shoot a liter or so of water each time it backfired. Upon further thought, I don't think the problem lies in the exhaust, as after it cleared all the water, it continued to backfire (once I actually got it started). I made sure that the carbs were being properly fed: took a hose, hooked it up to Mag carb and put the other end in a cup of fresh gas, no difference. The plugs do seem to be getting quite wet (with gas or maybe oil) during cranking, I was able to get it started only after drying them out, and then when it ran (with no water hooked up) it ran as if it was missing, jerking violently and during revs, it seemed to backfire. Definitely not a smooth idle. Has anyone out there had a jet ski not run due solely to bad crank seals?

Next on the list of things to try is disconnect rectifier and do a test run, clean out carb jets to ensure it's not running rich/lean, and then finally (most dreaded of all) replace stator. I hope you all learn from my mistake: NEVER BUY AN ENGINE FROM CRAIGSLIST (unless you KNOW FOR SURE it's good)!!

 

[Bills86e]

Cause of backfiring is air leaking INTO the cases or intake as a lean condition. Spray
carb cleaner on crank seal, case, RV, carb base ect until you hear rpm's rise, theres
the culprit! Bill

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

Case leak

Thanks Bill, I'll give that a shot before messing with the electronics. I read some posts about checking timing, how easy is it to make your own timing marker? It seems like a washer with a needle sticking out of it... Does the needle just need to line up wiht the center of the middle mounting bolt? I don't have an inductive RPM gauge either, do I REALLY need one?

 

[Bills86e]

Do you have a Shop Manual?

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

Shop Manual

Yes, I have two. I haven't consulted the paper version for the timing procedure (yet). But the Bombardier one says I need an rpm gauge to run the engine at 3000 rpm's to check timing... does this have something to do with the length of rotation that we have to mark on the pto? How much tolerance do you think there is for these things?

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

Carbs

My ski had grey fuel lines, but I didn't think they could have been the culprit as my previous engine seemed to run just fine before it died. The fact that it wouldn't run at all shifted the blame from my fuel lines/carbs to the new (used) engine. Well, having read 100 times on the forums to replace lines and clean carbs, I finally set to do so before taking off the stators. Turns out my PTO carb filter basket was almost completely trashed out, and the MAG side was like 1/3 full of crap. Put in all new components and reassembled. Will finish replacing the rest of the lines and put carbs back in today after work to see what happens. WISH ME LUCK EVERYONE!!

 

[Bills86e]

Replace selector or clean. 3/16" drill tubes if reuseing. Bill

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

Put the new carbs back on today with new fuel lines to and from the tank, still doesn't want to run in the water. Out of the water it runs like it's got one cylinder, and won't maintain idle. I'm really starting to suspect the stator, as this new engine came with its own stator ring. I have another I can replace it with, and that is my next move. As clogged as the carbs were, I don't believe mine is a fuel issue. These same carbs ran just fine on my old engine (before the wrist pin bearing decided to crap needle bearings into my rotary valve). The carbs have fresh EVERYTHING, and judging by the fact that I had another engine running like a top with the previous fuel line setup makes me not suspect the selector. As I was cranking myself around the lake with the starter, I could smell raw fuel. Upon arriving home, I pulled the plugs to find them very wet with fuel. Also, the spark on both plugs was like a rave party inside my little X4 hull.

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

nothing helps

I have ruled out the fuel system in this nightmare of mine: replaced fuel lines to and from carb, and stuck the feed-line into a tank of month old gas, completely bypassing the selector and the vents, loosened the gas cap so that I know it's vented, and fired up out of water. Idles rough, but starts right up, revs up to a nice roar, but seems to take a little longer than it should to pick up the RPM's. Put it in the water and no start. If I crank it forever, it starts to start and kicks out the bendix, but when you go to start again, it just keeps cranking. I've just about ruined my battery with this thing, so I hooked up another starting battery (with jumper cables) as I was cranking in the water.

Unplugged the rectifier, with no result. Getting lots of spark, took the plugs out and turned it over, and it was like 4th of july. Took off the exhaust pipe and it's wet inside (with fuel, it doesn't bead on the carbon buildup). It's as if it's not burning the fuel. Also, the hull gets kind of smokey after a lot of cranking. Took off the front cover (a real BIT*H to do with engine in the ski). Removed stator ring and pickup coil, they look fine, no metal shavings, though the stator has a little paint on it from my paint-job. That shouldn't matter, as it's a magnetic induction (right?).

Would both plugs still fire this good if the stator or rotor were no good? I don't have another stator, but do have an extra rotor. My next move is to pull the flywheel and check the cotter pin. If that's all fine and dandy... what else could it be??? Is it possible to adjust timing on this thing? If so, what do I need to do that?

I have:

descent compression (145 on both)
new fuel lines
clean fuel filter
rebuilt carbs
new plugs (the metal rim is still shiny, and I get great spark)
two happy beeps every time I crank

PLEASE HELP!!

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

Doom

Well, checking the flywheel for a sheared key (going through the pain in the ass procedure of removing the timing cover with engine in ski), I decided to check my pop-off pressures. They were about 20 and 23 psi, which is a bit low I think. After building a pop-off gauge and setting them a bit higher, Idecided to pressure test the block (while the carbs and exhaust were off). I blocked off the exhaust at the cylinder jugs and at the carbs and put my pop-off tester to the pulse line for the carbs. Started slowly letting pressure in and started hearing bubbles inside my block. Then I smelled that creamy oil vapor eminating from the oil one way valve. Guess my crank seals are gonners . I am quite handy in the shop and have rebuilt my share of engines, however, how hard is it to rebuild a seadoo crank? Is it tedious to reassemble it (can I screw up the way it goes back together?)

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

So, I know it's been a while since I've posted about this, and I imagine some others of you are experiencing similar problems. I hope this next tid-bit helps, as I resolved my issue for a very low cost. I never did get that engine to run right, and figured it was the crank seals. With the $300 pricetag and hours of garage time in mind, i simply ordered another "running" engine. After reinstallation, I had the same problems: lots of smoke on trailer, not starting in water, and if it does start, it died shortly after (or when I tried to open throttle). I started noticing that my plugs kept getting fouled out. So I brought it back home, put it on the trailer, and put an inductive timing light on it. Sure enough, one of my plugs was firing only once every 20 revolutions. I thought it was the wire, and started messing with it: no avail. So I went back in my garage and replaced the plug with an older one, and guess what, the problem got 80% better. Went to the store, got some new plugs and gapped em to spec and now the thing runs like a demon. Timing light shows both plugs firing away with no pauses. I think however, that my carbs are still not tuned exactly alike because to the touch, one cylinder jug feels a bit hotter than the other. Will do a true confirmation with a laser temperature gauge. Good luck to everyone else out there!:thumbsup:

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

PS: the reason I didn't suspect my plugs earlier was because they were less than one year old. They didn't even have that dull look on the metal part... I kept thinking for a fact that they couldn NOT be the problem. Turns out, it's very important to have fresh plugs that ARE PROPERLY GAPPED. The gapping may have been the cause of my earlier demise. Well, instead of spending $5, I spent $700 to figure the problem out. At least now, I have an extra engine and a whole lot more experience. Anyone looking to sell their blown up xp or spx?

 

[Kozerxp]

Plugs are the first thing to be changed when hunting down a running problem some have to learn the hard way but thanks for the update and as fir me I put new plugs in every few rides out just to keep from getting stuck in the open water because of a $5 part