2007 Speedster will not start after sitting in water

[Banditgrrr]

So here I go again trying to fix the same issue with my boat that I had last season and never figured it out. I can start my boat fine in the garage. I can start my boat fine immediately after launching. The problem starts after the boat is in the water for any period of time. I'll drive it for 20-30 minutes, I'll jump out and swim around for an hour or so while the boat is floating, and when I get back in the boat will not start. I've tried a few basic things and I've replaced several parts thinking they might be the problem. Now I'm fresh out of ideas and internet searches have not turned up any results.

I'm at my wits end and I'm soooo tired of having to call Boat US to tow me back in every time I go out and drive for 30 min. Below is a list of everything I've replaced so far and I'm out of ideas. I just ordered a Candoo Pro to check fault codes. Is there anything else I can try to test? I'll be back on my boat in 2 weeks after I get the Candoo and trying to make a list of everything I can check since the lake is an hour drive from me. Why is floating in the water for 30-60 min causing my boat not to start? This is a 2007 Speedster 150 with supercharger.

Replaced both batteries with brand new ones
Replaced all 4AWG black and red battery cables
Replaced starter
Replaced plugs and installed NGK's DCP-R8E
Replaced all 3 coils
Replaced all 3 fuel injectors
Replaced carbon seal & boot

 

[JPass]

So what is happening after the boat sits for some time? Does she crank and not fire? Have you confirmed that you have spark and fuel when she isn't firing up? Whats the voltage on the battery when trying to start it? How much time does it take to finally get her fired up (hours, next day)?

 

[Banditgrrr]

So after it sits for a period of time in the water, it will start to crank like normal but after each failed attempt, it cranks a little less and a little less. After about 30 or 40 times of trying to start it, the battery starts draining and then I'm stuck. I had two brand new Optima blue tops in there. The shop told me to change them because the magneto may not be strong enough to recharge them. They put in 2 brand new 800 CCA batteries and still the same problem. The past several trips, I've had to be towed back to the dock. I pull it out of the water, clean it up, drive an hour home, park it in the garage and then it starts. While it's sitting in the garage, I've pulled the coils and each plug has spark. I've never done it while I'm on the water. Should I be pulling the coil/plug while I'm in the water to test it? How exactly do I know if it's getting fuel?

 

[XP 787]

Try pulling the plugs next time it doesn't start in the water and check plug tips to see if they are wet with fuel/water.

 

[enut]

Did you run your blower for a minute or two? Next time this happens, it may help to open up the engine hatch as well.
Make sure you rule this out before getting into anything else.

 

[JPass]

Are you using a starting battery or at least a dual purpose battery? Deep cycle batteries should not be used for starting your engine.

When the motor dies, you can easily check for spark by using an in-line spark plug tester (Couple of bucks) and you can do like XP787 says and pull a plug to check for fuel. You could always try spraying some fuel or starting fluid into the throttle body to see if she'll start. If she does, then it's a fuel delivery problem. Be careful with the starting fluid as it's not really the best for your motor and can wash the oil off the cylinders if you spray too much.

Another thing to check, would be to remove the fuel cap when she doesn't start. A loud whoosh will indicate a tank vacuum/pressure issue. If you do hear the woosh, try starting again and if she fires, then your issue is with the fuel system ventilation.

Keep us posted.

 

[Banditgrrr]

I've been running my blower for 3-4 minutes. After it wouldn't start, I end up lifting the engine hatch, removing all my gear and the shelf above the engine to look around. This gave the engine full airflow. As far as the batteries, the shop removed the Optima Blue's and they installed an Interstate 24M-XHD (800 CCA) and an Interstate SRM-24 (550 CCA). If I'm parked on the water, I've set my perko switch to 1, 2 and All and it's made no difference. I will definitely make a note to remove the fuel cap and listen for vacuum. When you say "starting fluid into the throttle body" where exactly is that so I know I'm spraying it in the right place? I have a can of starting fluid but wasn't sure it if should be sprayed on the air filter or somewhere else.

 

[JPass]

I'd try right at the throttle body (top arrow). You'll want to shut the motor down immediately if she fires. You may have luck at the supercharger intake as well (bottom arrow), but I believe the exhaust blocks access.

Make sure to have the blower going and have an extinguisher nearby and maybe the kill switch lanyard in hand. Better safe the sorry. An extra set of hands wouldn't hurt either.

I'd bring a voltmeter as well. That way you can check the battery voltage before and after the issue arises. When the motor is running, confirm the charging system is working (should be around 14V going to battery).

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

On the water, you can easily check for spark by pulling one of the coils, plugging it back into the harness, sticking another plug in, and holding it against a ground source, like an unpainted bolt or something. Be very careful as it's super easy to shock yourself doing this, also there will be an exposed spark, so don't do it if you smell vapors. This method is for when you don't have a spark tester.

These seadoo boats have a way to deactivate the fuel system by pushing the throttle all the way forward. I believe the plugs still fire though. I think this feature is for diagnostic purposes, like checking compression. Maybe this is somehow getting triggered?

There is a fuel pressure test port on the fuel line, but it takes a special fitting. I rented one of those Autozone fuel pressure testers, and they didn't have a fitting for that particular attachment. But when you put your key on the DESS post, you should at least hear the fuel pump wind up.

Do you get the two happy beeps when you put the key on when it doesn't start?
Any trouble codes? You can check for these by pressing the SET button 5 times.

Before you do any of this, do check the fuel cap as previously mentioned. That is the easiest test, and if your vent is clogged, could very well explain all of this.

Good luck and keep us posted

 

[Banditgrrr]

Ok. Just got my boat back in my garage and wanted to check a few things based on your feedback before I take it out on the water Friday.

1. I removed the gas cap and did not hear any vacuum but I'm assuming that if this is a problem, it may only happen after it heats up.

2. I do not have a SET button on my 2007 Speedster so I'm not sure if there's another way to check fault codes.

3. I removed the exhaust manifold and this is what I see. I'm assuming all the white crap isn't supposed to be there. It's almost like a slime. It is also at the mouth of the J pipe. I've inspected the actual exhaust manifold and I do not see any cracks or holes. The previous owner told me the boat had never been in the ocean and I took him at his word. I'm assuming this is some type of salt water corrosion perhaps? I'm assuming I can clean this up the best I can and put it back together. Could this have something to do with my boat not starting after driving it for about 20 min and letting it sit?

4. Just to add, when I separated the J pipe and the manifold, there was white water in one of the hoses and the mouth of the manifold was also wet. The last time I've had my boat in the water was October. Not sure if it's supposed to be damp inside there or not.

 

[JPass]

That corrosion isn't bad at all. Clean it up and put it back together and get her back on the water.

 

[XP 787]

Those manifolds are known to develop pinholes right where all of that corrosion is. Water then enters inside of manifold then into engine. (happened to my RXP) Are your plugs wet with water droplets when it wont start?

 

[Banditgrrr]

I'm going to check the plugs after I drive it for about 30 min when I launch the boat on Friday. I didn't know if that white build up in there is common or if that could be the sign of a problem.

 

[wrench2ride]

I'm going to check the plugs after I drive it for about 30 min when I launch the boat on Friday. I didn't know if that white build up in there is common or if that could be the sign of a problem.

xp 787 is right, they were prone to corrosion issues, even in fresh water, do your run and don't turn it off until you get back to the launch then let it sit, that way you won't need to get towed back.

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

Those manifolds are known to develop pinholes right where all of that corrosion is. Water then enters inside of manifold then into engine. (happened to my RXP) Are your plugs wet with water droplets when it wont start?

Interesting... I ride salt now. I guess I have to worry about this too now. Does revving it on the trailer not dry that water up? I flush mine after each use too...

 

[Digdog]

Do you have a photo of the exhaust ports on the engine you could show us?

 

[wrench2ride]

Interesting... I ride salt now. I guess I have to worry about this too now. Does revving it on the trailer not dry that water up? I flush mine after each use too...

revving it on the trailer will help a bit but you would have to run it for a while to get the exhaust hot enough to evaporate all of the water out and that kind of heat is going to be hard on the rubber and plastic components of the exhaust system, definitely flush after salt water use but even flushing with fresh water there are minerals in the water that will react with aluminum, over time the aluminum will erode. when sitting for a long period of time I feel it is important to run antifreeze through not just for freeze protection but for the corrosion protection.

 

[JPass]

We flush with Salt Away after we use in salt water. Seems to work well.

 

[Kdidit]

I am having the same problem with the 155hp Speedster 150 and I have some observations that may help reach an answer, though I don't know what it is yet.

We were stranded with the same crank no start behavior as Banditgrr. It cranked and cranked in the water but did not start. We did not have a hose pincher to block the water line so we made sure to go slow on the tow back. Checked the oil at the dock and found water in the oil. I figured the tow back was the culprit. Did the boil out procedure, oil change and installed a towing valve to the water line in case we got towed in again.

A week later while trying to diagnose the problem, the same happened again but no tow was required as I was stopped at the dock. Decided to check the oil and there was water again, though not as much. This led me to believe that it was the repeated cranking with no start that is causing the water in the oil. Took it out of the water and it started right up.

To further test the condition. I put it back in the water, started it on the trailer and drove it around for a half hour. I closed the water valve and then immediately shut off the motor. The boat sat anchored (not running) in the water for an hour which has reliably caused the crank no start to occur. It started right up without a problem. I immediately opened the valve and went for a ride with no issue.

My best guess is that the exhaust has a leak from the water jacket to the exhaust stream. When running, the exhaust flow and heat prevent it from being problematic. When sitting for some time, the residual water leaks enough to make it hard to start which then is exacerbated by the repeated cranking. My best guess at the moment is the J pipe.

I am sure that the forum community is smarter than me so I welcome any thoughts on the matter and testing suggestions to help identify the part that needs to be replaced.

 

[Banditgrrr]

Kdidit,

Great detailed write up. Due to the issues I've had with my boat, I sold it several months ago and never was able to determine the root cause. I included previous pictures of my J-pipe and if I remember correctly, it's an extremely expensive part to replace. I hope you're able to get some help from others on the forum.

 

[Kdidit]

Banditgrr,
Sea-Doo is proud of their J-pipe. It is the pipe or the exhaust manifold. I will dig into it more this weekend. Hopefully someone in the forum can share their own experience and solution to this problem.

 

[Kdidit]

I did a little more digging into the problem today and I believe that I found it. Turns out there is a hole in the exhaust manifold at the connection to the J-pipe. The leak is internal when the parts are assembled which is allowing water to enter the pipe exhaust channel just past the clamp. I never saw an external leak. The hole is circled in the photo.


I am considering a fresh water used manifold or a new manifold from SBT. Does anyone have any comments about the quality of the SBT manifolds? Also, are the bolts typically difficult to remove? The rest of the install seems simple.

 

[JPass]

That looks like the culprit. If the bolts give you trouble, try hitting them with 50/50 acetone and ATF and let them soak for a day or so.

 

[Kdidit]

The SBT exhaust manifold is installed and the the Speedster is starting on the water without a problem. I hope this helps others who are experiencing the same problem. Now I can move in to the wear ring if the hex bolts holding the reverse bucket bracket come out.

Thanks to all who posted.