1995 SPI Seized Engine, now runs, but why?

[stinger520]

I recently bought a 1995 SPI waverunner from someone who claimed it ran fine. He started it up for me in his driveway off of the water house adapter and it started right up from cold. I put it in the water the other weekend and heard an alarm from the unit. After investigating a few items (we started it several times using the garden hose adapter), the alarm later went away. The owner had started the unit with running the water before starting the engine, I have now learned that can cause damage and you should only start the water after the engine is running



I then took the unit out for about 5 mins brought it up to some RPM to get some fresh fuel running through it. When docking the unit and starting and restarting it, the engine seized. We took it onto land, and were able to break the shaft free and restart the engine (Just started and turned it right off to see it would still run).

I suspected oil may not have been mixing properly. I took off spark plugs and put a tiny bit of oil directly into the cylinders to make sure there was at least some oil in them. I started the waverunner with one of the oil lines removed and saw that the pump was in fact sucking up oil. The oil system also appears to hold pressure.

So does anyone have an idea of what might have gone wrong/is wrong with my PWC? I'm considering to just pre mix my gas to be on the safe side. I've greased the engine shaft in the back. I don't know what type of oil was in the unit, but I've now bought the real Seadoo low ash stuff to use.

Did starting the unit a few times with the water running before the engine was running cause the engine to seize? Anything else to investigate? Should I just premix the gas and hope for the best?

Thank you in advance for your time and consideration of my questions.

 

[custompartsguy]

you can also hydro lock a motor and sometimes when they get hot engines with a problem can seize when hot and be fine cold again.

 

[custompartsguy]

I would take a hot and cold compression check, and take a look at your cylinders/pistons as well for damage.....you could have also sucked something into your impeller.

 

[stinger520]

It was actually the second 5 min trip it seized up on. The first time I took it out, the cooling water pissing out wasn't very warm for whatever that is worth.

On the second trip (When it seized) someone else actually took it and reported he thought it was having trouble getting power out of it. It seized not during the run but after idling through a canal and only after restarting the engine a few times. He was also a bigger person and hadn't ridden the ski before so possible wasn't sure of how much power it should have. Is possible something got sucked up here too.


The engine was still seized when cold, we were able to break it free with a pair of channel locks.

 

[custompartsguy]

Are you sure it didn't flood out and hydrolock? Or hydrolock from water in it?

 

[stinger520]

Possible from running the garden hose without starting the engine first. No significant water was in the bilge though.

It still always started fine, other then when the engine was seized. Starts fine now i just don't want to cause future damage. When it was seized I couldn't physically move the shaft, after breaking the shaft free it turns pretty easily.

If starting it with the hose incorrectly was the problem should I just hook back up the oil injection system and use it normally? Check anything else? (Besides compression/cylinders to look for damage?)

I'm strongly considering just pre mixing the oil so I don't have to depend on the pump or on the chance there was/is something wrong with it.

Thank you very much for your help!

 

[custompartsguy]

there are ups and downs to running premix, oil injection gives the exact amount of oil needed at the time it needs it, premix runs the same amount of oil at all times but that way you know it will always get oil.

 

[seadoo GTS 1993]

Dont premix. Its a pain

 

[custompartsguy]

everyone will say differant, it will go both ways its up to you if you want to run premix, just read what I stated about it, as long as you run the correct 40:1 it will not hurt it.

 

[custompartsguy]

yes with the hose/water turned on before it is started can cause it to back up and hydrolock.

 

[custompartsguy]

Proper engine flushing

1. Wash off its exterior thoroughly with fresh water as soon as possible, after safely removing the PWC from the water, Use some car wash and a wash mitt if you have time, but be absolutely certain that no salt water remains on the PWC. Spend extra time washing out the "business end" of the PWC - the jet nozzle, the reverse gate, the impeller, the ride plate.
2. Allow the engine to cool down before flushing. Flushing a hot engine can cause small stress cracks in the cylinder due to the differential expansion between the aluminum cylinder and iron liner.
3. Unscrew your PWC's drain plugs. Open your PWC's hood - wash the engine bay down with fresh water - be sure not to hit the electrics with direct spray.
4. Hook the hose up to the water injection port (the flushing port). Do not turn on the water. (IF you force water into the motor without it running, water can and will backtrack up into the carbs and cylinders causing hydro-lock.) Start the engine, let it idle for a few seconds. Then, with engine running, turn on the water. Ensure that water is flowing out of the exhaust, the impeller grate, and the cooling port(s). Let the motor run at idle for approximately 8-9 minutes. After this time has passed, remove the hose. Let the engine run another 5-6 seconds, then stop the engine.
5. Ensure your PWC is secure to the trailer. Tilt the PWC back on its trailer. This allows all the gathered water inside to run out. Hold the trailer at an angle for approximately 3-5 minutes. Once it is back level, use shop towels or rags to dry off the entire engine bay/battery compartment/exterior.
6. Open the port on the carb silencer - it is usually a small rubber gasket that can easily be opened by hand. Start the engine, and let it run for 1-2 seconds. With the engine idling, shoot a little bit of "FOGGING OIL" into the port. (The engine will bog down for a second, then resume its normal idle). Spray another little shot of fogging oil in, the engine bogs down, and then it picks back up. Once the engine is idling again, stop it.
7. Coat the entire engine, the "business end of the PWC" (including the impeller, the jet gates, the reverse gates, and all the exposed metal in the rear of the PWC), and all cables and linkages with a thin coat of silicone lubricant. (Many people use WD-40 for this, or CorrosionPro Lube.) Any light oil that displaces moisture will work - this is just to seal the metal off from any corrosion causing moisture.
8. Apply a vinyl treatment to your vinyl seats - this can be from an automotive store, or a boating supply store, but protect those seats from cracking,fading and wearing thin!
9. Fill your PWC with gasoline and Oil (especially if its a two stroke). Leaving these tanks with empty space is just asking water and condensation to form. Be safe, keep them stored full!
10. It is a very good idea to use a fuel stabilizer gasoline additive. While it is almost imperative to treat your gas if you are not planning to use your PWC during the off-season, etc., it is a good practice to always treat your gas since the stabilizer significantly slows the absorption of water vapor from the air. You are done - cover your PWC with a tarp or a provided cover and call it another great day on the water.

Seadoo manual states not to let run more then 5 mins out of the water.

Tips

• A lot of these products can be bought from a local auto parts store or boating supplies store.
• Having a buddy there to help you can really make things go by faster
• Remember, this is your PWC and its your money tied up in its ownership. Take pride in your ride and maintain it right - in return it will provide you with a long time of good riding
• This procedure described above IS NOT for long term storage - this is simply a procedure to keep your PWC healthy for a few days while it sits out of the water.
• You must get this procedure accomplished ASAP after you are out of the water - the longer salt can sit on the PWC, the faster it corrodes and destroys your boat.
• This procedure is also very applicable to those who ride in fresh water - there are still many contaminants in fresh water that can harm your ride.

Warnings

• The above described procedures are taken from multiple owners manuals and technician's advice. Always follow your owners manual's instructions to the letter and seek advice from trained professionals first.
• You are responsible for your PWC, and this procedure may or may not be the best suited to your PWC. Do not use this procedure without first checking with your PWC manufacturer and trained/certified technicians.
  • Never start any of this until your PWC is secured to the trailer
• Always make sure everyone is CLEAR of the back of the PWC when you start the motor.
• Never run your motor out of water for longer than 10-15 seconds without cooling water hooked up to it.
• Always seek the help of experienced PWC maintainers when doing this procedure for the first time.
• Don't skimp by buying cheap chemicals - This is your ride - treat it with pride.
• The above procedures were written with a 2-STROKE 800 CC Dual cylinder engine in mind.
• Your PWC is pasted with various warning labels and danger icons. Ensure that you take them seriously and follow their instructions.

Things You'll Need

• A Hose hook-up and a garden hose
• A flushing attachment for the garden hose
• Silicone lubricant
• Fogging Oil
• 2 Stroke Oil that meets manufacturers requirements
• Gasoline
• Rags and Towels

 

[stinger520]

I tried taking the waverunner out this weekend and the engine seized again.

I took it out stopping it every so often to make sure it would restart and didn't seize up. After a little bit an alarm started going back on and the oil light indicator was on. I had two decent streams from the engine (one was def stronger though) both streams were warm, but nothing i couldn't hold my hand over. I would think if the engine was overheating the cooling water coming out would be burning hot. At the dock i disconnected the oil sensor line, and the alarm and oil light still came on. The shop manual says it should be a closed circuit when the sensor indicates its low on oil and an open circuit when you have enough. I don't understand why the oil light still came on with the sensor disconnected. The sensor did read shorted so it was reporting I was low on oil (maybe it takes time for the light to reset?) The manual only indicates the alarm comes on for an overheated engine, is this true or is there anything else it will turn on for?

Is there any information out there on how to read the temperature sensor? Is it a thermal couple or another type of sensor? If its a thermal couple does anyone know what type it is, so i could read it with a multimeter?

Needless to say after the engine cooled down it locked/seized up. I was able to break it free again with a pair of channel locks and restart it. I don't think the engine ever hydro locked this is more of a mechanical seize, rather then having water in the engine and not being able to start/compress the water.

I think I am just going to take the waverunner somewhere, unless someone has a good troubleshooting suggestion. I didn't take the motor apart and look at the cylinders, i think I would just want to bring it somewhere at that point.

Anyone have a good suggestion on a mechanic near the jersey shore or in northern NJ?

 

[stinger520]

I have since taken the ski to a mechanic. (When I took it to him the engine was not seized)

He couldn't find anything wrong and wasn't sure what the issue was. We decided to try and take it out to have it seize again to troubleshoot the problem with it seized. Of course next two times I took it out I couldn't get it to seize (I rode it increasingly harder and longer then I have in past times).

I took it out again last weekend and only putting around the canel it seized up again.

The drive shaft is locked solid. There is no flex or movement at all. The engine has good compression (before it was seized). Any one have any thoughts what this might be. My mechanic thought if it was the bearings next to the fly wheel there should have been some flex when turning the flywheel. The flywheel however is rock solid.

Any thoughts from anyone?

I appreciate the feedback. Thank you!