Shop has run out of ideas on my low-powered 2001 Challenger 1800

[Chunkeymonkey]

Hello friends

I have my 2001 Challenger M2 V6 in a shop now as it loses power above 3400 RPM's, they have run out of ideas on what the issue can be. They even had a Mercury rep on it also - still no joy

They have said that 2 & 5 are dropping, but intermittently, but not sure where to go from there. They gave me a list of the other things they have tried also:

• Changed TPS
• Timing checked - All good
• Voltage checks, checked oms to ignition coils, voltages to the stator - all good
• Have right fuel pressure readings
• Cleaned fuel tank, (bypassed as well with their own tank)
• Changed rev limiter
• Run on a separate harness
• They did find sand in VST, cleaned, also changed water separating filter and inline filter

Does anyone have any other ideas/pointers to what this could be?

Thank you in advance for any help you can offer here!

 

[Tim75]

Have the trigger coils been checked? There are 3, on one assembly. One could be failing as it gets hot from engine heat. Do you still have the original, or has it been replaced before? The original had very poor quality insulation that crumbled over time. After the insulation crumbled, wires corroded and could touch one another. All leading to intermittent problems.....

Has a compression test been done? Have you changed spark plugs lately? I had 3 that developed internal short.

 

[Chunkeymonkey]

Hi Tim75 - thanks for getting back to me on this!

Can you point me in the right direction as to where these trigger coils are, and if you had any pictures or part #'s that would be great?

I will then pass this on to the mechanic

A compression test has been done and came back fine, i believe he checked the plugs, but will check with him again on that

Thank you again

 

[Tim75]

Trigger coils are under the flywheel. They can be checked with a common volt meter. I suggest checking them cold, and again IMMEDIATELY on shutdown after a 15 minute ride. Running on a hose is not the same. Specs are in the service book online here. Any mechanic worth his beans would know where trigger coils are.

Can you give the compression values?
Did the price on that TPS cause heart palpitations?

 

[Chunkeymonkey]

Thanks again Tim75!

In the time we have been chatting about this, he came back to me with the same assessment believe it or not, and is going to test and get back to me shortly. I believe the compression values were 120, but will confirm when i chat with him today on my daily teleconference call with them

I have not been keeping up with the cost of this to be truthful, and hate to think what the bill is going to be? I have though started to post my resume for a second job to pay for that TPS - i think it was about $550 (does that sound right)?

i'll provide an update shortly, thanks again!

 

[JTR]

Hello friends

I have my 2001 Challenger M2 V6 in a shop now as it loses power above 3400 RPM's, they have run out of ideas on what the issue can be. They even had a Mercury rep on it also - still no joy

They have said that 2 & 5 are dropping, but intermittently, but not sure where to go from there. They gave me a list of the other things they have tried also:

• Changed TPS
• Timing checked - All good
• Voltage checks, checked oms to ignition coils, voltages to the stator - all good
• Have right fuel pressure readings
• Cleaned fuel tank, (bypassed as well with their own tank)
• Changed rev limiter
• Run on a separate harness
• They did find sand in VST, cleaned, also changed water separating filter and inline filter

Does anyone have any other ideas/pointers to what this could be?

Thank you in advance for any help you can offer here!

I don't know this engine, just a driveway mechanic, but could it be starving for air at the higher RPMs? Actually getting choked and too much gas causing it to bog down?

 

[AirSniper]

here's a longshot, but doesnt cost...crack open the gas cap, maybe the tank is not venting. easy cheap, and if it works, certainly worth a beer.

 

[Tim75]

$550 is about current price for our TPS.... about 3.5 times the cost of one for Mercedes.....

Make sure you get the old one back- it might not be bad!

 

[SeptemberC]

New TPS part number. $120

 

[Chunkeymonkey]

Hey JTR, i believe they checked this but will confirm

 

[Cablebandit]

guardian activating?

 

[Chunkeymonkey]

Thanks SeptemberC!

 

[Chunkeymonkey]

Thanks for the tip on this, AirSniper, and i tried, but did not fix...

 

[Chunkeymonkey]

Hey CableBandit, thanks for posting. Can you help in understanding what the Guardian is, and any troubleshooting steps i could take. The boat is now on my driveway again (after paying $700 for parts to not fix the issue), so any self-help help would be really appreciated

Could i find iout some information on it in the shop manuals?

Thanks again

 

[Tim75]

Throttle guardian is an electronic RPM limiter. If the pump get air, as in jumping wakes, the engine unloads and RPM skyrockets. Guardian keeps the engine from coming unglued.

They work by cutting ignition. There are threads here with more detail. They are known to fail occasionally.

It is usually in driver helm box. It's about 1x3x4 inches. There is a very dark blue wire with yellow stripe. (Some say it's black with yellow stripe.) Cut it. Seal the ends. Guardian is by-passed. Be aware- this could allow your engine to grenade, but unlikely. Mine has been by-passed for 3 years. All good.

 

[Chunkeymonkey]

Hi Tim75-thanks for the explanation, and from what i am reading, a promising area to explore...

I did take look today, but was not sure of what the Throttle Guardian wire looked like. I tried to search on this, but i could not find a picture of one in a boat to use as a guide for the life of me.

So don't snip something i should not, I have attached a picture of me boat in the hope you could point me in the right direction to the right one to cut (i see a couple of Yellow and Black/Purple wires)...

I think it could be the little black box with the arrow in the attached picture, as that has a Yellow and Black (i think) wire, and comes from the Lanyard connection, but could be wrong...?

Thank you again

 

[Tim75]

The wires you point to are not the one. In my 2001 Challenger, the guardian is next to the fuse block you see. I do not know where else Seadoo may have mounted it. Maybe on the wall of a compartment, maybe the engine bay? Maybe a previous owner already removed it?

From the pic of your TPS, yours is different than mine. Are you sure it is a 2001? There were some engine design changes 2002½ year.

 

[Chunkeymonkey]

Hi Tim75, is there another way i can disconnect the TG wire and test? I thought i had read someowhere that the TG cable goes to the engine somewhere - can it be snipped there instead do you know?

I will double check the TPS part number today...

Thanks again

 

[eekachouh]

This picture matches my challenger 1800 2001 model

 

[Tim75]

Pic of throttle guardian--

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Bombardier-S...ontrol-Kit-892230A01-/162163100273?rmvSB=true

 

[Tim75]

More info on TG--

http://www.jetboating.net/jetboating/common/forums/threadview.aspx?forumid=-1&threadid=14815

 

[Chunkeymonkey]

OK, spoke to a really great guy today about my boat, and he looked up my model on the SeaDoo database, he does not think my year had the Throttle Guardian, and it shows no record of it being fitted for my model/year (Model 5446, Challenger 1800 Standard 240 EFI)

This makes sense as i cannot find it the TG box anywhere, but could it be something else similar to the TG issues that are reported?

Thank you again

 

[AirSniper]

Hello friends

I have my 2001 Challenger M2 V6 in a shop now as it loses power above 3400 RPM's, they have run out of ideas on what the issue can be. They even had a Mercury rep on it also - still no joy

They have said that 2 & 5 are dropping, but intermittently, but not sure where to go from there. They gave me a list of the other things they have tried also:

• Changed TPS
• Timing checked - All good
• Voltage checks, checked oms to ignition coils, voltages to the stator - all good
• Have right fuel pressure readings
• Cleaned fuel tank, (bypassed as well with their own tank)
• Changed rev limiter
• Run on a separate harness
• They did find sand in VST, cleaned, also changed water separating filter and inline filter

Does anyone have any other ideas/pointers to what this could be?

Thank you in advance for any help you can offer here!

Coils 2 & 5 share a "coil driver" looking at similar optimax wiring diagrams. these appear to be different than coils. something to consider.

 

[Chunkeymonkey]

Coils 2 & 5 share a "coil driver" looking at similar optimax wiring diagrams. these appear to be different than coils. something to consider.

Hi all, i know this thread was started back in 2017, but still in same pickle with the boat and would love to get it running for the upcoming season!

For the 2 & 5 coils, are these the trigger coils under the Flywheel? Tim75 mentioned this before in the thread, but i am not sure that the shop looked at these before?

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

Perhaps you could swap out the trigger coil for 2&5 with another set of cylinders and see if the problem follows it? How are you able to tell that those cylinders drop out?