Oil shut-off solenoid

[wdemaster]

Hello Everyone!

I have to apologize if I looked over a thread that contained this question and missed it. I looked fairly extensively and didn't happen across anything.

I just bought a 2004 Speedster 200 and got it out on the water this weekend. It was amazing! Well, for the most part. Something like every 10-20 minutes, the port check engine light would go off along with a beep. That engines RPM's would drop approximately 2000 but keep running. It didn't seem to matter what RPM the engine was at before it went off, it would always drop about the same number. I checked the physical oil level, and all was well. I could pull the lanyard, reinstall it, restart the engines and everything would work again for the next 10-20 minutes, as long as I was running above an idle. All of the times it happened, was running above 4000 RMP's. This happened 5 times total, the second time, both check engine lights came on. None of the other error lights came on.

I had it to a dealership today to have it checked out. The computer returned something about the "Oil Shut-off Solenoid" being bad. The service writer told me they had a test they did, and each solenoid failed every time. He said they were EXTREMELY difficult to replace because of their location. However, I feel they would be fairly easily accessed if the under-seat tubs were pulled up. He quoted me $870 for the repair after labor and that the parts were $270/ea.

So here is my actual question. Given that they are designed to prevent oil from getting pumped out of the engine in the event of a roll over [what the dealership told me], how detrimental is it to the engine if they are not dealt with and keep tripping the check engine light? You know, besides the annoyance factor....

Thanks for the help!

-Wes

 

[devonte007]

I think you might be getting hosed…

I am not sure what an “Oil Shut-off Solenoid” is, but I suspect they may be referring to the TOPS valve, which is the Tip Over Protection System solenoid that shuts the crank case breather tube in the event of a tip over. Needed on the PWC’s but not really in the boats; if your boat tips upside down you have more serious problems to worry about.

If it is the TOPS solenoid, then $800+ to replace them is a lot. They can be tricky to get to, but not at all impossible. If you can confirm that it is the TOPS solenoids the dealer says are bad, then I think we can probably help walk you through replacing them yourself if you are somewhat mechanically inclined.

Since you are getting an intermittent oil light, it seems to me it can be one of two things, oil pressure or crank case air pressure. If the TOPS is failing then your crank case air pressure would be exceeded and an alarm may sound. Had this problem on my boat last year and easily fixed it. If it is actual oil pressure related could be something else. There is an oil pressure sensor, a crank case air pressure sensor and the TOPS solenoid that could be at fault. Could also be too much oil, oil should be right at the middle of the bends on the dip stick.

Without more detailed info it is difficult to provide better advise. In order to diagnose anything with these engines you need to have a special computer to read trouble codes. You can buy a Candoo Pro system for about $400 which would allow you to hook up your computer to your engines to troubleshoot. Considering you have a potential bill of $800, this might be the time to get one. If you are mechanically inclined and plan to work on the boat yourself in the future, it might be something to consider.

Post back with some more detailed information and we’ll try to get you back on the water…

 

[Coastiejoe]

Many boats don't actually have the TOPS. They bypass it.

 

[wdemaster]

[MENTION=27297]devonte007[/MENTION]

Yes, by "oil shut-off solenoid" they are referring to the TOPS. I am not overly worried about getting to them, I am extremely mechanically inclined. I took apart and resealed an Alpha 1 stern drive earlier this year. Judging by the schematics, it looks like not too much trouble to replace them.

I never got an oil light. Only a check engine light. I checked the level of oil and coolant as a precautionary measure before proceeding to reset the DESS and fire the engines back up.

Your oil level comment does resonate a little. Both engines have oil up to the top of the second bend.

-Wes

 

[devonte007]

Since you have confirmed the TOPS and check engine light (not oil pressure light) you have the exact symptoms I was having last year. I will explain how I was able to remedy my situation:

First off, you may want to take a look at this thread from a couple years ago. A member with your same boat had the exact problem:
http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?70280-Pressure-Behind-Oil-Cap-Oil-Leak

I also uploaded a PDF copy of the Seadoo 2004 tec manual update that has some very in-depth troubleshooting and information about the TOPS and Oil pressure issues:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/91252531/2004%20tech%20update.pdf

My problem was an intermittent check engine light after the boat was running for some time. Since I did not have a Candoo, I suspected it had something to do with crank case pressure and maybe the tops system. I replaced the OPS (crank case pressure not hydraulic oil pressure sensor) and also decided to take the plungers off the TOPS valve. Never had a check engine light after that. Not sure what actual procedure fixed it, but I am happy.

To remove the plungers, just take off the oil fill valve assembly and remove the c-clips holding the plungers to the TOPS solenoid, and reinstall. I think the valve assembly is held on by 3 bolts, of course the back one is difficult access.

Coastiejoe is correct that Seadoo eliminated the TOPS system on the boats. Don’t think they got around to doing that until 2005-2006, so our 2004’s are exactly like the PWC’s. This is why I had no problem taking my TOPS plungers off and bypassing the system on my engine.

I you do not already have a copy of the shop manual for your boat, you may wish to download that as well, helps a bunch. You can get a PDF copy from this site or probably search the internet to find a copy (search s e s seadoo manuals).

As I am sure you know, the worst part is trying to contort your body in the engine bay to get at the fasteners on the front of the engine. After the first one, the second one should be easy…

If you have any other questions or issues post back and I’ll do my best to help. I have some pictures from my disassembly I can upload too. Let us know how it goes!

 

[wdemaster]

Devonte007

Thanks for all that great information!! Helps enormously.

You say you bypassed your TOPS system. Does this mean you simply took the plungers (spring, metal plate & c-clip) off and put the solenoid back on? If I were to make a little plate that bolts on in place of that solenoid, would that work as well?

I think I will get the boat back and try bypassing that system first, if no check engine light, then golden. If it comes back. I'll dig into the crank case pressure or hydraulic pressure sensors. I'm also going to quiz the dealership about what code they found...

I hope to be home by this Friday and dig into the boat this weekend or next week. I'll keep you all posted!

-Wes

 

[devonte007]

Glad I can help…

You are correct, to bypass my TOPS I simply gutted it by removing the plungers, springs, clips, etc. I then bolted it back in place. The solenoid still activates as normal, but since the shaft has no plungers on it I essentially bypassed the system and it does nothing.

I suppose you could remove the TOPS and bolt on a block-off plate, but the computer may have a problem with that. You would have to test it or do some more research. It is probably easier to simply bolt the gutted TOPS back in place and be done with it.

Here is a picture of my gutted TOPS and the OPS that I replaced.




The reason I also replaced the OPS is because they are known to go bad on Seadoo’s. In fact, seadoo has redesigned the part a couple times. The sensors will randomly ground out and trip the check engine light, so very difficult to test. They are right there next to the TOPS and easy to replace when everything else is apart, also cheap like $20 each. I also didn’t feel like crawling back in there a second time, so wanted to cover my bases the first time. Been solid for the last 2 years.

 

[pwgsx]

Yep that was me and all I did was remove the plungers and my problem was fixed

 

[devonte007]

pwgsx, you were definitely the inspiration for doing this to my boat. Ended up having the same problem as you not long after we were trying to figure out how to fix your boat. Fix worked great and I haven't looked back!