oil in the spark plug plug tubes

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To2d

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i have a 99 speedster SK (2x720) and while winterizing it i noticed more black "thin" oil in one of the engines spark plug tubes "both of them" then normal. This is the same engine that has always smoked a white/gray when cold.

  • The engine runs great and sounds great.
  • Starts right up and will hit 7,000 rpm.
  • Same amount of power as the other engine

other then the smoking has had no problems.

Any ideas on what going on?
 
2-stroke engines normally do smoke to some degree. If no performance issues exist (as in runs correctly) the smoke tells you it's receiving lubricant. I worry on a cold start more if I don't see any smoke, this is when smoke will be most noticeable.

Oil pump control cable adjustment is important, check them regularly especially after someone's been working on them b/c they may have forgotten to readjust a/d or check adjustment.

Some oil on the plug threads is going to happen and quite normal but make sure to torque the plugs correctly as per instructions if you're unfamiliar with how much to tighten them.
 
It was smoking a lot! Like it just burning more oil then it should. Burns the eyes!

More oil on the plugs on this engine that the none smoking engine. Plus it's blacker.

No adjustment have been made to that cable since I have owned the boat .

Do you think it could need adjustments even if it didn't used to smoke and now it does?
 
if your oil pump cable breaks the pump goes full open. Its a pain to get in there and check oil pump alignment but a mirror helps.
 
It does seem like I am going thru more oil when it started smoking. Could be that.

Any other ideas of things to look for?
 
There's nothing else really that could cause more smoke than excessive oil consumption. Is there any oil in the hull? I recently had a decen amount of oil in my hull and it turned out to be the oil line that goes to the bottom of the oil pump.
 
Do you think it could need adjustments even if it didn't used to smoke and now it does?

Need further detail to try narrowing the possibilities, this is a process of elimination.

Leaky inner crankshaft seals:
So the smoke is occurring the first few minutes following cold starting, after the boat has been sitting unused for a week? Or does it smoke constantly, or does it smoke a few minutes after hot restart?

If the engine is smoking constantly, not just for a few minutes following start-up, this would indicate the oil injection is supplying too much oil. Also, your spark plugs will foul more often when there's consistently too much oil. The center ceramic insulator underneath the ground electrode will be covered in oily wet soot and black, this carbon deposition will cause the plug to misfire in a shorter time than ordinary.

The plugs should have a cardboard brown color to them, black soot is indicative of too much oil or too much fuel. It's unlikely there's too much fuel though, usually the opposite is true but it's a possibility. If too much fuel, you can usually smell the gasoline wafting behind and the engine runs pretty rough. This burns my eyes thus it's what I think of when you mention your eyes sting.

That said, if the smoke is prolific just for the first few minutes then normalizes, there's a good chance one or both of your inner crankshaft seals are leaking. If the boat sits say for a few days and oil is seeping into the crankcase slowly through leaky crankshaft seals, it's right there ready and will enter into the combustion chamber at startup. This will make for a nice cloud of mosquito-killing smoke for the first few minutes at least, until the excess oil is cleared and pumped out of the crankcase.

In this case note it could be just one or both seals, if just one then only that spark plug will tend to be sooty and the other much more brown as normal. Keep in mind it takes some time for the spark plugs to reach normal operating temperature thus running on a trailer is no way to judge very well, such issues as spark plug center electrode ceramic insulator color. Basically running on the trailer only validates whether the engine is liable start in water once launched, can't tune an engine out of water except to correct for gross mistune in preparation for a water test.

So if you ever take your boat to a shop for engine or jet pump service, the boat repair remains incomplete until after the boat is water tested.

Let's say your inner crank seals are actually leaking and the boat sits unused for a lengthy period of time. In this case the crankcase will continue filling with oil from the constant force of gravity forcing oil through the leaking crank seals, eventually filling the case with enough oil the engine cannot be started without first removing the spark plugs and cranking the engine over using the electric starter to expel the excess oil through the spark plug holes and out of the engine crankcase. You'll need a towel laid over top of the open spark plug holes to absorb this excess oil while cranking the engine.

In this case, you will lose an appreciable amount of expensive oil to waste, perhaps 1/2 quart or more is possible.

Leaking crank seals are pretty common as these rotary valve engines age, the rubber lip seals that should isolate the rotary valve drive gear lubricant (2-stroke oil) from the rotating assembly in the crankcase tend to wear and harden due to heat and constant exposure to fuel. Once they begin leaking it usually starts off as a bit of extra smoke, especially the first few minutes of startup.

So if your seals are leaking, you can install a manual valve as a temporary work-around to stop the oil from flooding into the crankcase, where it's not supposed to leak toward. Leave this valve closed when the boat isn't being used and the oil is stopped from leaking past the crankshaft seals.

If after sitting for say a month or more unused, you cannot start the engine due to the crankcase is flooded with oil, it's probably due to the inner crank seals are leaking.

Clean the leaky oil injection check valves:
Another possibility for oil seepage into the crankcase while sitting unused is through one or both of the oil injector nozzles. These nozzles have a spring-loaded check-ball valve inside which normally would self-close but over time can become dirty inside, interfering with the check-valve operation. If for instance the check valve ball is not closing due to some contamination, oil will tend to dribble through it unabated, while the engine is not running. It might also be possible to cause constant high levels of oil smoke as well, I'm not sure.

Check the oil injection pump calibration:
The oil injection system is variable volume delivery. Thus as throttle is applied normally the cable attached to the oil injection pump operates a pintle valve that regulates the volume of lubricant being injected into the intake tract along with the air and fuel mixture. If for instance the cable has broken, this defaults the system to full injection volume and the engine will generate smoke accordingly while running. If the control cable is misadjusted, the result can be more, or less oil than intended.

So there you have it, either the oil injection system isn't working properly, or the inner crankshaft seal(s) might be leaking.

Hopefully this is enough detail to get you pointed in the right direction. :)
 
This is awesome info!!!

You gave me a lot to think about but after reading this it sounds more like an oil injection problem. I will have to dive into the oil injection system and check the cable, oil injector nozzles, and the rest of the system. It smokes heavy on startup and then a little after warmed and ran on water. Nothing crazy like on start up but it there. On days that we run it hard the smoking almost completely goes away.

BTW... very little oil on the hull floor that I see. Could have been from that leak oil pressure check valve above the oil tank. I replace it becomes it was alway dripping oil. I clean most of it up.

Knowing that do you agree on the oil injection?
 
The low-hanging fruit is to confirm your oil injection pump control cable is properly adjusted and moves the valve lever on the injection pump as the throttle is actuated. Maybe the control cable has broken or fallen off?

Pretty soon most of us will be putting their boats away for winter and this layup period is the time where leaky crankshaft seals are discovered in spring, when we take the boat out of storage and discover the crankcase is flooded with oil.

If you have oil in the bilge, most likely it has leaked from the tank or oil line tubing/fittings. There are small 3/32 internal diameter rubber tubing that carry injection oil from the oil injection pump to the injection nozzles below the carburetor mounting base. These small rubber hoses are famous for rotting in about a decade, so if yours haven't been replaced you should keep a very close eye on them or better, replace them before something ugly happens (for instance, oil injection is interrupted due to broken tubing) using new Tygon 3/32" internal diameter F-4040-A type tubing.
 
Fingers crossed on the cable...

I will take a look a see what going on.

How do I check the adjustment and know if it's right if the cable is there and not broke?
Also... is there an easy way to make sure the nozzles are working correctly?
 
Reach around the front of the motor and grab the lever on the oil pump then have someone move the throttle up. You should feel the lever move. Can you post a video of a cold start so we can see how much smoke? On a cold start my boat smokes more then when warm in the water but. It really excessive.
 
The cable I can check in the next few days. Live up in Seattle area and need some dry weather.
The video will have to wait. The boat has been fully winterized and wrapped up.
I appreciate all your and Sportsters help!
 
This image is from the 1996 service manual, section on 717 (720) engine oil pump adjustment.

I made some notes, and the rubber oil lines that should be replaced if not yet done are in orange.

As the throttle is moved, this cable also moves the lever on the pump. Set the throttle to idle position, the indexed marks on the pump and lever should be aligned parallel (red line). It the lever mark is left of the pump mark, this will produce more oil (It's been a while since I've worked on a 720). So you can see, as the throttle is increased, this rotates the oil pump control lever CCW and adds more oil volume, accordingly.

Every 2-stroke tends to smoke slightly more cold when just started as compared to when it's at operating temperature but it's not typically a night and day difference.

Check injection pump adjustment of both engines, throttle lever in idle position.
 

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This is awesome!
I will follow this and let you guys know what I find. Looks simple now that I see it. I'm a visual learner. I will also look at the lines.

Thanks again!
 
Here is what I found and yep... its weird!

The oil pump control lever was upside down and the cable was very loose. So I assume it was dumping oil as if it was at full throttle.
191.jpg


I just turned it with my hand and the cable went tight and it's sitting down where it should be. "Still needs to be adjusted so the notch lines up"
192.jpg


What would cause this and how do I prevent it from happening again?


BTW... the oil lines looked good and felt fine. No oil leaks below.
 
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Not sure if it would make a difference, but I noticed that the cable is not routed through the change of direction bend that is shown in the diagram just to the right of the upper banjo bolt. Maybe this is putting stress on the cable and pulling it at the wrong angle or allowing it to pull all the way up?
 
Its a little different setup then this but all these pictures help. On the speedster SK the oil injection cable comes from the control lever to a bracket under the carbs. Having two engine side by side has helped. The bracket is missing the cable guide in the picture Sportster-2001 added

Squad1... Good eyes! That is the only difference between both of my engines oil systems. One is missing the cable guild. i sprayed a little lube on the slot in the bracket where the guide should be and hold the cable in the slot while my daughter worked the throttle. The pump lever works perfect!:thumbsup:

ordered a "GUIDE-CABLE 270000187" and it should be installed next week.
View attachment 37957

Once installed, i will have to put the battery back in and fire her up. This is awesome!!!!:cheers:

Thank You Sportster-2001, XP 787, Squad1, and racerxxx

I will keep you updated
 
Sorry to hijack, but thought this was a good spot/time to ask:
One of my off season projects is to replace ALL of my oil lines when I swap my oil tank (cracked)..
What I/D's and in what lengths of Tygon 4040A will I need for my 97 Challenger with the single 787?
Thanks in advance!
 
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