New to me as-is 1995 SP - Worth it?

[mashenden]

I recently bought a galv trailer that came with a '95 SP. Thanks to this forum and on-line manuals, I have evaluated what I have as follows:

• SP - low end PWC (which is fine for me and my kids at this point). I realize it is on the lowest end on value. Someone noted it as the fat chick of jet skis. Fun to ride until your buddies show up and see you with it .
• Clean with what appears to be light use.
• Old tank that I can get replaced for free from the "recall". Gray gas lines that I can replace for about $30.
• Broke open the carb and it looks in great shape, although the filter was near clogged (gray lines are likely the cause on this).
• Tested ignition and spark looks strong on both.
• Needs a battery. Can get AGM for about $80.

So far, so good. My concern is that I found gouges in the rotary valve cover, the valve, as well as to a lesser extent, on the block side of the valve. I have seen some posts that say it is not that terrible, but it sure looks like it is bad. Any thoughts on whether I should just 1) clean the carb and reassemble to see if it runs vs being overly hard to start (keeping in mind I am not trying to restore it to perfect or anything) or 2) replace the valve and possibly the cover now while I am at it? If the latter, any idea on costs for the valve and cover?

 

[Brucetafer]

IMO, if you want to keep it, do it right. spend the little extra money and get all new, or from a forum member.... depending on how old your kids are, that's a great ski to learn on and a bullet proof motor... id be crazy to know my kids are playing on something that I know had some issues... its not like they are in gator infested water and have to worry about it too bad...

 

[racerxxx]

I'd fix her up for sure, get a clean R/V cover, rebuild the carbs and fuel system, especially if you got it cheap. Perfect ski to start on.

Remember, not everyone can land the "Hot" chick, and the big girls need a ride too!

 

[mashenden]

Good advise, no doubt, and good food for thought. But I doubt this one is a keeper, but rather something to ride until I can upgrade to something hotter... err, I mean faster.

My kids are college teenagers, this area has jellies but no gators, plenty of cell coverage, and I have a few other boats to use for search and recovery.

Based on the pics, does it look like the gouges are likely to cause performance problems, or likely to allow it to run reasonably well for a season or two? In other words is it worth cleaning the carb, replacing the fuel lines, putting in a battery, and seeing how well it works. If there is no way with gouges like that it will run worth a crap, then I'll spring for the parts, but if it is 50/50 that it could run decent, then I'd take the chance... I could always tear it down again if I lose on a 50/50 bet.

Also, would a replacement valve and cover cost $100, $300 or more/less?

Edit: Just checked eB on prices; I think I see the light. I should be able to get used, but better parts for about $50.

 

[mashenden]

In regards to the rotary valve cover for a single carb 587, it seems there are 3 versions, as follows;

1. Two oil injectors, one in each orrfice (which is the kind I have)
2. Two oil injectors, one each that ports into the V thingies (a technical term ) that are in the cover surface.
3. One oil injector that is ported to only one of the V thingies in the cover surface.

Will any of these work or must I get one that is the same as I have (#1)?

 

[kicker]

I would first check your compression to make sure the top end is not toast, then turn it over with the PTO and stick your ear in the intake to hear or feel if the bottom end has anything obviously wrong. You will feel some piston slap, what your checking for is something that sounds or feels like a bad bearing.

If it checks out ok there should be no reason it wont run, so then continue with your fuel and oil system, and RV. I would replace the RV with what was in there. How does the valve itself look?.

Minnetonka should be able to help you out with the parts.

 

[Minnetonka4me]

Yup it wouldnt be too much to get some fresh parts in there...but it doesnt look all that bad. If there arent any edges that are gonna make it worse you could run it and see if its fine. If not...then you got a little more wrenching to do.

 

[mashenden]

I would first check your compression to make sure the top end is not toast, then turn it over with the PTO and stick your ear in the intake to hear or feel if the bottom end has anything obviously wrong. You will feel some piston slap, what your checking for is something that sounds or feels like a bad bearing...

Good idea. I'll be doing both of those today. Minimally I will replace the valve. It is has gouges as well as messed up edges.

What does "PTO" mean? Search did not even find this thread (odd??).

I suspect it means with the plugs out and plug wires on the ground bar, but just wanted to be sure?

 

[mashenden]

Does anyone know if rotary valve covers with either of the three oil injection styles are interchangeable? Better?

 

[racerxxx]

PTO is the round disc on the back of the engine where the drive shaft plugs into, under the gray cover if it's on there. Power Take Off is what it means.

 

[mashenden]

PTO is the round disc on the back of the engine where the drive shaft plugs into, under the gray cover if it's on there. Power Take Off is what it means.

Ahhhh, I'm glad I asked. I was way off base. Thank you.

 

[Minnetonka4me]

Does anyone know if rotary valve covers with either of the three oil injection styles are interchangeable? Better?

They are not interchangable...only 580's fit on 580 motors. They look the same but they dont interchange.

If you happen to want to upgrade I got twin carb setups off a 93 and a tuned pipe off of a spi if you wanna wake it up a little.

 

[mashenden]

Crap. The compression test shows 150 on front, 60 on rear (steady, does not fade).

Is there a problem doing a comp test with the carb and rotary valve off?

Also, in trying to do the suggested test on the lower end, I realized its hard to know what to listen to when not knowing what a good one should sound like. With the plugs out, and when moving the PTO back and forth a few degrees, there is a clunk. Does that sound like something normal, or possibly related to the rear compression problem, or a sign of also trouble in the lower end.

I'm thinking that the next step is to pull the top off to see what it looks like. Sound right?

 

[kicker]

Clunks are never good when something turns at 7000 rpm typically it turns into a BANG!! in a hurry. There is no problem testing with the RV out the results will be the same.

Pull the jugs to see what's going on there, but it does not sound good.

 

[kicker]

Crap. The compression test shows 150 on front, 60 on rear (steady, does not fade).

Is there a problem doing a comp test with the carb and rotary valve off?

Also, in trying to do the suggested test on the lower end, I realized its hard to know what to listen to when not knowing what a good one should sound like. With the plugs out, and when moving the PTO back and forth a few degrees, there is a clunk. Does that sound like something normal, or possibly related to the rear compression problem, or a sign of also trouble in the lower end.

I'm thinking that the next step is to pull the top off to see what it looks like. Sound right?

Did you try spinning it continuously in one direction rather then rocking it back and forth? When rocking back and forth your clunk you describe just might be piston slap, the rings moving up and down on the pistons when the piston changes direction.

 

[mashenden]

I pulled the top off and can now see that the clunk coincides with the rear piston being at the bottom of its stroke. It stops moving for a bit (unlike the front piston which has continuous movement when it is at the bottom) and the clunk happens as the piston starts to move again. Time to play with the fat chick's jugs (Sorry - I'm so immature for a geezer).

 

[Minnetonka4me]

This is pretty much how every guys first cheap seadoo ends up isnt it??

 

[mashenden]

I went to pull the jugs and, while it should not have been a surprise, its more than 4 bolts to remove the jugs... also have to remove the exhaust (duh! and uggg).

So, I am trying to decide what to expect...

IF (big "if")... IF it turns out to be a bad needle bearing, is that repairable by just removing the jugs, or does this mean splitting the lower end, etc? I think pulling the engine and opening up the lower end is the line I am not interested in crossing. I'd throw in the towel if faced with that, but I am OK with pulling the exhaust and jugs if that would be all that is needed to fix the piston problem.

 

[mashenden]

This is pretty much how every guys first cheap seadoo ends up isnt it??

But still no regrets, though. Now it looks like I got a good trailer for a decent price rather than a trailer and ski for a great price.

 

[Minnetonka4me]

thats all that matters...LOL as long as you didnt buy it thinking all it would need is a starter.

I highly recommend pulling it completely apart. The crank needs to be checked and everything cleaned.

SBT has the 580 motors priced pretty cheap; I dont really like their parts but on a low HP motor it doesnt really matter.

 

[mashenden]

Reality sets in... this engine is toast with respect to my abilities.

With the exhaust and rear jug removed, it was apparent that the problem is in the bottom end. The rear piston arm bearing (not sure if that is what it is really called) down on the cam shaft was all but gone, which is why the piston still moved up and down, but not continuously and with a clunk. The good news is I now know what a bad one sounds like. The bad news is now I have a decision to make. Spring for a rebuilt motor or throw in the towel.

If it were just the cost of the motor I would probably bite the bullet and go for it, but its the cost of tools that worries me. How much should I expect to spend on special tools to replace a motor. Seems Ill need a shaft alignment tool, something to pull the flywheel, and something to figure out how to install the rotary valve. Am I overlooking a required tool?

 

[kicker]

If it was me and I was committed to get it running and use it for a year or 2 I would get the rebuild done by SBT or
SES for $500 and be done with it. No tools to buy or extra work. SES has a promo that includes free shipping there and back plus $50 off the rebuild. http://www.shopsbt.com/seadoo-jet-ski-engine-standard/40-102.html

You can ride it for 2 years trouble free with a warranty and still sell it after using it for $500 to $1000. That's cheap entertainment as far as I am concerned. I will bet by this time next year you will be posting you bought a second one.:thumbsup:

Of course you will still have to do the fuel and oil lines, jet pump oil plus the carbs etc which you had to do anyway. As long as you dont go nuts on the cosmetics of the ski I think you can get on the water for under $1000 with a brand new motor with a warranty.

 

[mashenden]

If it was me and I was committed to get it running and use it for a year or 2 I would get the rebuild done by SBT or SES for $500 and be done with it. No tools to buy or extra work. SES has a promo that includes free shipping there and back plus $50 off the rebuild.

You can ride it for 2 years trouble free with a warranty and still sell it after using it for $500 to $1000. That's cheap entertainment as far as I am concerned. I will bet by this time next year you will be posting you bought a second one.:thumbsup:

Of course you will still have to do the fuel and oil lines, jet pump oil plus the carbs etc which you had to do anyway. As long as you dont go nuts on the cosmetics of the ski I think you can get on the water for under $1000 with a brand new motor with a warranty.

That is exactly what I am thinking.

A few questions on your post that caught my eye...

You mention no tools. Are my assumptions incorrect that I'd need tools to 1) align the engine during the reinstall, and 2) and a flywheel puller?

Also, in looking at SES's website, I do not see anything about the promo. Is this something that would be offered when calling?

 

[kicker]

I am not sure about SBT, but SES will pull the flywheel and and PTO off for you. Just take the mag cover off, along with starter, exhaust, carbs, temp sensor, spark plugs, hoses, oil injection nipples, etc. Send it in with the RV and cover and they will set the timing for you as well.

If your core is good, you should get the same core back. As long as you keep your mounts and shims in the same original spot you should not have to align the engine. One of the other guys should be able to confirm this.

I just ordered one from SES yesterday, when you click on the "Buy Now" it comes up $50 cheaper, and then they email you the free shipping label. It's about a $200 savings. Give them a call to make sure, I did it for a 787.

 

[mashenden]

... SES will pull the flywheel and and PTO off for you.
... Send it in with the RV and cover and they will set the timing for you as well.
... As long as you keep your mounts and shims in the same original spot you should not have to align the engine.

Wow, that seems to address all of my fears/concerns. I'll definitely give 'em a call. Thank you for the feedback.