New (to me) 97 Challenger 1800....where to start ??

[Bobstaff]

New to this site but I have devoured tons of great info !
I just bought this 97 Challenger 1800. The good news is that I seem to have all of the service records since 2009.
It was originally a Florida boat so let's assume it was a salt water boat. It was "rescued" in 2009 and brought to Canada. I have no idea about it's history during that time however since then the port engine has been rebuilt/repaired THREE times. The first two times were shortly after purchase so I assume the guy got it for a good deal with a known engine problem !
Third repair was top end only and the mechanic noticed that he pistons were installed backwards (sigh). Starboard engine was just adjusted...no other problems....compression good on all cylinders....in 2012.
After this repair it apparently ran great...I actually spoke to that owner, two owners before me.
The guy I bought it from claimed to not know a lot about the boat, even though he had a binder with all of this information. It's VERY easy to tell that the two engines are not the same anymore. He has owned it for about 3 years and has always run well and hasn't put a lot of hours on it. At the end of last year it wouldn't start. The plugs were all fouled (both engines) and replaced and that seemed to help. The old ones are still in a bag and pretty dirty. He tried starting it this year and it wouldn't start. He said it was a loose connection at the "key"...I'm sure he meant the DESS was intermittent.
It's still covered in my driveway (it actually started snowing today !) so I haven't looked at it yet.

I'm looking for some guidance on steps to take to give me an idea how much work I am going to have in front of me.
I plan to pull out the RAVE valves and inspect/clean them and peek inside cylinders, compression test, maybe even check timing on rotary valves. Hey, I might even try starting it !!
Any direction on what to look at for ALL plugs being fouled? I don't have a clear understanding on how oil injection systems work yet, but I see it in my learning curve.

On the plus side...the seats are in GREAT shape !

 

[mikidymac]

There is no adjustment on the timing of the rave valves. Just make sure they are clean.

The oil should not be blue or green, you have to use only API-TC rated full synthetic.

 

[jts32]

If it was fouling plugs last year and won't turn over when hitting the start button this year after being in storage, I would suspect leaking inner crank seals. Pull the plugs and hit the start button. Do this outside, and cover everything you don't want oil on. If the seals have leaked into the crankcase, oil will shoot out of the plug holes like a volcano erupting

 

[Bobstaff]

Well here we go..... first thing...battery DEAD. Like needle not budging dead.
So while charging I came across sum stuff that maybe you can help me identify.
In the first picture there is a bolt in the top-left corner that has me stumped. It was in a bag with gear case lube. The rest of the parts look like an old rotary valve gear and shaft.
In picture 2 I am curious about the 2 blocks with the holes in them. They were in a bag with the Homemade timing wheel, so I'm guessing some kind of homemade jig for the valve.

 

[Bobstaff]

Aaaaand I just noticed an almost empty jug of Shell TC-W3 2-stroke oil in the storage area. The type that manual says NOT to use.
Hopefully not toooo much engine damage.

 

[mikidymac]

The first picture is a bad and taken apart rotary drive gear. Also a impeller tool for removing them.

The second picture is a home made degree wheel but not really how you set them as you need an actual degree wheel that can be printed from the manual to set the rotary valve timing.

No clue what those blocks are.


And finally, yes wrong oil that needs to be removed and flushed.

 

[Bobstaff]

How about oils that claim to be suitable for both API TC and TC-W3 ?

 

[funsummerahead]

How about oils that claim to be suitable for both API TC and TC-W3 ?

I wouldn't use that oil just to be safe. It might be ok but states it's good for AIR cooled engines requiring API TC and also water cooled engines that require TCW3. It doesn't mention water cooled engines that require API TC... Sea Doos are water cooled and need better oil than the TCW3. So just to be safe use it in your chainsaw or something like that.

 

[mikidymac]

How about oils that claim to be suitable for both API TC and TC-W3 ?

Basically there is no such thing as a dual rated oil as they are completely different additive packages. If it says TCW-3 anywhere on a bottle is is not recommended in a Seadoo.

 

[mikidymac]

I wouldn't use that oil just to be safe. It might be ok but states it's good for AIR cooled engines requiring API TC and also water cooled engines that require TCW3. It doesn't mention water cooled engines that require API TC... Sea Doos are water cooled and need better oil than the TCW3. So just to be safe use it in your chainsaw or something like that.

Just to get a little more technical there is no such thing as an air or water cooled API-TC specification. API-TC is an older rating specification that was in place when almost all 2-stroke engines were air cooled. That is why you see lots of labeling referencing the air cooled 2-strokes and API-TC. It's just because there were not many water cooled 2-strokes when the certification rating was founded. So API-TC is API-TC regardless of the engine or cooling system. Also the air cooled 2-strokes run at much higher temperatures so they need an oil that can handle the higher temperatures, a more high performance oil if you will.

 

[Bobstaff]

I actually went out and bought some seadoo oil and surprisingly it doesn't give any specification on the back at all other than saying its "T2"....and the Shell oil that I took a picture of also is T2...guy at the shop said it would work...but since I was there I got the OEM oil for 66 bucks!!!!!!
And it's a different color (red).

 

[Bobstaff]

Any tips on what this wire is??

 

[mikidymac]

I actually went out and bought some seadoo oil and surprisingly it doesn't give any specification on the back at all other than saying its "T2"....and the Shell oil that I took a picture of also is T2...guy at the shop said it would work...but since I was there I got the OEM oil for 66 bucks!!!!!!
And it's a different color (red).

2T is just a generic industry term for 2-stroke. $66 what the heck? MSRP is $49 for the top spec Seadoo E-Tec 2T full synthetic.

Also don't mix the two different oils as they can gel in the system and starve the engine for oil.

 

[mikidymac]

Any tips on what this wire is??

Without a diagram it's hard to say. Seeing as those are factory blockoff plugs my guess it is for an option or accessory that your boat doesn't have.

 

[Bobstaff]

2T is just a generic industry term for 2-stroke. $66 what the heck? MSRP is $49 for the top spec Seadoo E-Tec 2T full synthetic.

Also don't mix the two different oils as they can gel in the system and starve the engine for oil.

That's $66 Canadian. Probably the same thing.

 

[Raven888]

That's $66 Canadian. Probably the same thing.

Almost exactly. $65.39 at todays rate.

 

[mikidymac]

Sorry guys. I noticed it has gone up about $5 a gallon this year for us here too.

 

[Bobstaff]

Crap...I have to pull one starter.....thanks to YouTube it doesn't look like it will be too bad.

 

[mikidymac]

Just don't buy an aftermarket starter. You can typically save the OEM ones with new brushes.

 

[Bobstaff]

Hoping for the best.
It spins but doesn't engage the flywheel.....or all the teeth in the flywheel are broke, but I doubt that.
There is one of the last starter shops in the province not too far away from me so I will probably start there.

 

[mikidymac]

LOL, "I will probably Start there"!

 

[Bobstaff]

So.....any idea what happened here...and is it a problem??

 

[funsummerahead]

Those need to come out and be cleaned. Those black caps should NOT have holes in them like that. I can also see a gasket on the top of the bottom rave is sticking out a lot and broke in half. That was reused and shouldn't have been. You need to carefully hold the black cap down, swing the metal retainer out of the way and slowly extend the cap and not lose the spring under it. Next remove the 2 allen head bolts holding in the base and the rave valve. Clean everything up and see if the rubber bellows are good and the O rings. Make sure you remove the old gaskets from the engine and bases. You'll need a couple parts or maybe rebuild kits but in the meantime remove them and clean all the parts up - Especially the RAVE valves. Should look like this pic when you're done but I see the O rings are missing from the pic so I marked where they will go.

 

[Bobstaff]

Any idea what might cause that? Only on the rebuilt engine, the other one is fine.

 

[Bobstaff]

Hmmm...mine look nothing like that!
Ordering rebuild kits today.