More 00' GTX DI woe's

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XARiUS

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So I have been working on my GTX DI with a 951 Orbital Equipped for like 2 years now, had an issue with the Stator and ended up having to change the magneto cup and stator both, thats been completed and I had it back on the water for the first time since 2014 and I thought things were great.

So as it turns out, the ski runs great from start until about 6440 RPM and then it chokes, dropping down to like 5880 and then back up, like its surging. If i let off the throttle it runs great until WTO then does the same. Its intermittent, but more intermittent running correctly then not. There are no MAINT lights or beeps.

Here are my initial thoughts.

1.) Bad gas? OK.... was sea-foamed before weatherization last year and had high-octane gas in it. I topped off the tank with some 92 and added a can of SeaFoam -- still no luck.
2.) Fuel filter? -- this is a DI and i think the fuel lines are pressurized? If i change the fuel filter by the fuel pump will i lose pressurization?
3.) RAVE Valves? Not much experience working with these as my others a 717's without the Rave system, but this is my next step to clean all the RAVE Valves needed or not.
4.) Injectors? Is is possible for me to clean the injectors with something or somehow?

Any help would be appreciated, Im learning more about these DI motors and trying to decide to either keep this one and sell my GTI (717) or vise-versa. Taking it to a Seadoo dealer for a BUDS test is out of the question, there's none near.
 
Do not use seafoam on a di.. not good for the injectors.

There is a place on Long Island (southbayfuelinjectors.com) that will clean them.

There are two fuel filters in the tank. They can be purchased at Advance auto. The external one people have also replaced, but I don't remember where they purchased them from.

Check the raves. You should feel them kickin at a lower rpm, around 4k I belive.

Mosites does not have a tester? I know they are not close in drive time. ..
 
Hmm.. Okay, I thought you could never go wrong with Sea-Foam, lesson learned, I'm going to pump it out now, I cleaned the RAVE's -- they were pretty dirty. Mosities does have one, so does Johnny-K's both like at least 1.5 hrs way in opposite direction. I will change fuel, clean RAVE, give it a try and then consider that next weekend.

Can they pull codes from it without a Maint light? I dont want them doing the repairs, cost to much, shit im hesitant to take it up to have a BUDS plugged in for $75.

Here is another kicked, say if I am turning, or doing anything other than go straight it will reach top speed, then when i go straight again she'll miss. Seems like a miss in one of the cyls' but again up until WTO it runs great.

Sorry for rambling & thanks again.
 
Sea-Foam is a somewhat controversial topic..

In most cases, you NEVER use an additive in a 2-stroke as it will thin out the fuel to oil mixture and wash the cylinders Walls decreasing lubrication.

Sea-Foam specifically states Ito s ok to use in 2-strokes as well as other items. And I believe it not states it is ok for injectors as well.

I suggest you do a little research and do what you are comfortable with..
 
If it is not throwing a code then you probably have a fuel issue or mechanical issue. When DI skis throw a code it is electrical such as rectifier, map sensor, knock sensor, etc.
I would check the fuel filters, fuel pressure, air pressure, injectors, air injectors, etc.
Again if your not a getting a"check maintenance" indication or light, it is probably not throwing a code and would waste a 75 dollar buds fee.
 
I looked at my can of Seafoam... I stand corrected. It does say injector safe, and for 2 stroke. I use it on our boat every year, and it helps, or it is in my head lol...

Try putting a gauge on the fuel rail and watch it when you are at WOT... See if it drops, showing a bad pump. Another possibility, you might not have enough DC power for the pump at WOT, and the pump is not providing the fuel you need...

Here are the part numbers for the fuel filters: Airtex FS220 and FS242

Here is the article about the canister filter too:

http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?82780-New-fuel-filter-03-xpdi


Here is a guide for the pump...

http://www.seadooforum.com/showthre...Direct-Injection)-Fuel-Pump-Replacement-Guide
 
So an update on this, the ol' GTX still is not running correctly. Still experiencing some issues at WTO, or anything above 6100RPM's. Heres whats been done.

1.) Took it to Johnny-K's Powersports for a B.U.D.S. test. Couldn't find a thing wrong with it. They did tell me they had a hard time getting the older unit to communicate with the new software. (they said this happens time-to-time on older models and the newer B.U.D.S. system. Ultimately, they charged me $30 for nothing, but some advice on checking the in-tank filters. So I did, and they were terrible, so i replaced them and was confident that was the issue. However this is not the case, took-er out this weekend with new 93 fuel and fresh fuel filters all around and experienced the same issue.

2.) So I got online and searched SeadooForum and decided to do a fuel pressure test since this model GTX 00' ME Edition DI had known issues with the fuel pump but all that seemed to check out. On lanyard on I got a little over the 27psi spec (it was about 30-31psi). While cranking I got upwards of 100psi (this rental gauge from Autozone only goes to 100psi) but seems to be OK.

So my thoughts are-- the reed valves? bad injector? (wouldnt that throw a code tho?) air injector?

It seems like the problem occurs then the RAVE's open. Consistently, one of the RAVE vacuum lines popped (I replaced it with stuff from Autozone that was junk, and went back to the original) and I only was able to get 6100rpm but the engine did not bogg down when at WTO -- it just went 6100rpm and no more).

Sorry for writing a book, but trying to explain what I have been dealing with requires a lot of text. If anyone has any thoughts please chime in. I hate to throw parts at this thing aimlessly but really like this Doo and want to get it back on the water.
 
No codes
Good fuel pressure
Compression?
Change prop recently?
Could clean injectors but I am thinking clogged injectors would make the ski miss and sputter.
Reed valves could be a contributing factor. Want to make sure they are tight against the reed valve body and not curled up.
Rave solenoid could be going south. Does it cycle when you push the stop button? If you haven't given the raves a good cleaning in a while, I would probably pull them and clean them. Rave caps screwed all the way down?
Last time out no bogging but only 6100rpms. When was the last time the pump was checked...bad bearing??
 
Didnt really think compression just because Johnny K's in Niles, OH rebuilt the top end on this watercraft in 2013 or 14, but only like 6 hours put on the new top-end.

I went to Autozone and rented one and am not happy with the results. Both cylinders are reading about 92psi. I'm going to try another gauge in hopes that this one was somehow incorrect but I have a feeling I know how thats going to go. However if this reading is true im suprised it even starts and runs semi-OK until a certain RPM.

If thats the case then I'm not sure what I'm going to do with it. Winter Project maybe? I heard these motors are pretty complicated to rebuild. And would it even be worth it if it was just rebuilt a few hours ago?

Yes, the Raves cycle when the motor shuts-off. I did clean those a few weeks ago but you wouldnt be able to tell by looking at them, they were pretty gunked up again.. spark plugs look good. I did notice a small hairline crack in the bottom of the nut that fastens the RAVE on cyl 2. It was at the bottom and not all the way thru, I ordered a new one but its yet to arrive. I think this is unlikely but what the hell.

No prop change, I did lift out the motor and realign it, but im confident that was a winner.

What pump? Fuel pump was just checked today. Air compressor is also functional.

Can the injectors be tested? same with the air injectors? perhaps with a multi-meter?

Last time out the air line going to the RAVES on the top of the motor came loose. I didnt notice until after trailering it, but yeah.. with those disabled it limited to rpms to 6100 but did not bogg
 
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Oh was talking about the jet pump. Maybe a bearing is going bad causing a drag.
Think you are on the right track with the solenoid hose. Compression being equal on each cylinder leads me to believe that it is the gauge.
 
When you checked compression, did you ground the plugs, and hold the throttle full open? Holding the throttle open disables the fuel injector, and allows air into the cylinder for compression testing.

Make sure your battery is charged.

Pull the plugs and make sure the jet pump is not binding. If it is, it will slow the RPM down, and give false readings.

Make sure your water rave valve is functioning correctly. From reading other post, it will limit you high end RPM.
 
So i tested on a different gauge and im getting slightly higher, about 105psi per cylinder. I did hold the throttle open while testing.

Looks like a rebuilt or just cut my losses and enjoy the 717's
 
So before I rebuild this, should I check my cylinders, I am just having a hard time digesting the fact that this Doo was rebuilt 6 hours ago and is again low on compression. It sat for 4 years almost. I dont know at this point if its the rings, or the cylinder itself.
 
I would get a bore scope from home depot, and pull the injectors or plugs and look into the cylinders. It will give you an idea of what the look like without pulling the head gasket. Have you leak tested the engine?
 
No I did not do a leak test on it. Yeah thats what I was thinking to, but didnt think it was possible without removing the head.
 
If it were me I would ride the damn thing and enjoy it. Is it perfect...no, but it seems from your description it is ride worthy just a little down on rpms.
 
So after work today I played around with the GTX ME, and for shits & gigs (and i know im probably not supposed to do this, but i did anyways) I hooked up my compression tester to rear cyl, left the spark plug and wire on cyl 1(front) and cranked it over. I got 135psi. I repeated for the other cyl and got the same reading, + or - a psi or 2.

Can anyone explain to me if this is normal, correct, incorrect? .. while trying to get a compression test with the plugs grounded I only got 105PSI and yes the battery is new and fully charged.

Now what?

jhjesse -- yeah, and I will ride it but i'm the type that likes it running like it should. Even like this i believe its faster than my 717 GTI
 
Is everyone just as confused as me on this? Weird that its getting the required compression when running, I would think the compression would be the same the whole way around, but what do I know?
 
So after work today I played around with the GTX ME, and for shits & gigs (and i know im probably not supposed to do this, but i did anyways) I hooked up my compression tester to rear cyl, left the spark plug and wire on cyl 1(front) and cranked it over. I got 135psi. I repeated for the other cyl and got the same reading, + or - a psi or 2.

Can anyone explain to me if this is normal, correct, incorrect? .. while trying to get a compression test with the plugs grounded I only got 105PSI and yes the battery is new and fully charged.

Now what?

jhjesse -- yeah, and I will ride it but i'm the type that likes it running like it should. Even like this i believe its faster than my 717 GTI

At 135 compression you are near perfect. Go ride and have fun. In between rides maybe figure out where the 500rpms went to.
Pull the jet pump and make sure it is not causing a drag.
 
That is the plan, hitting the lake this weekend, but still bugs me. I have no idea what the issue could be. I guess i'll check over the fuel/air injectors make sure the resistance is in spec and that everything is good there. May even take a look at the reeds again since 1 was gunked up while i was replacing the stator.
 
So just to put this threat to rest, I ended up with a CanDoo and found out the code was an issue with the encoder wheel, I had another one on hand and swapped it out and the old beast is back in full action. Had it out yesterday and got near 7000rpms with no issues. I only rode for 15 minutes or so but will take it out again this weekend for the real stress test.


Thanks everyone for all your help on this.
 
Congrats. I will hopefully have mine together this weekend, and engine aligned. My plan is to get it wet next weekend. Where are you dunking it?
 
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