GTI ELectrical Issues NO start

[ryder1541]

Hi yall,

Just picked up a 1997 Seadoo GTI AS IS

Currently it will not start. It does not crank, the start solenoid does no click. Here is what ive done:

Brand New battery
Had a Dealership reprogram Key
New starter solenoid/relay
New Computer module
Cleaned all grounds on motor and in electrical box
check fuses

What it does do:

With the old computer module and key out, it will blink once and cycle the fuel gauge. There is no difference with the key in or out.

The beeper is burnt out, but you can here three vague clicks coming from the beeper when you attach the key.

With the new module, there are no clicks, beeps, nor does the gauge cycle or light flash

The motor will turn over when jumping the start relay but no spark at the plugs.

Im at a loss here guys, I fancy myself pretty able to diagnose stuff, but I am stumped????

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Have you tried advanced self diagnostic mode, remove lanyard, press start button 5x then install lanyard after 1 short and 1 long beep?

If so, two long beeps is wrong lanyard, three short beeps is DESS post wiring harness.

 

[ryder1541]

So it no longer beeps or clicks at all now

With the old MPEM in, a red light on dash will flash, and fuel gauge will cycle. Nothing else

With the new MPEM, nothing happens at all, The new one sopposedly works with any DESS key and has no self diagnostic programs.

I switched out the DESS post with one from a GTX, and there is no difference

I had a dealer program 2 DESS keys to this ski and neither work with either MPEM

I checked all connections and all look brand new

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Could be, no power. Or, new MPEM could be incorrect. There's a master fuse probably in the ignition coil box near starter solenoid? Retry original MPEM, to see if the original conditions are still present?

Do you have the wiring diagram, you can back-probe MPEM connectors by slipping a straight pin into the connectors beside the wires to touch pins inside, verify supply voltage at MPEM, at start button, and DESS post.

 

[ryder1541]

Just ran the tests you mentioned, checked ground continuity, and power going into MPEM, main fuse is good, IM came to the conclusion nthat MPEM is faulty. It is a cheap aftermarket one.

 

[ryder1541]

Allright boys,

Replaced the MPEM with an oem onw with a DESS key programmed to it. Same thing. Fuel gauge cycles and reads level. Red light(for oil sensor) stays on. At this point I am beginning to think of two different theories...

1. There is a safety ssitch/sensor somewhaere that is not letting the ski start.

2. The square box that mounts to the MPEM is bad.

any advice??

 

[ryder1541]

Heres some more info.

I replaced the beeper with another one so it now beeps. Doing the self diagnostic, one short beep and one long beep after pressing start button 5 times, followed by 2 short beeps. Same thing with key in, 2 short beeps

edit: After the two short beeps when I hit the start button again it is one long loud beep

editing as I go here...

I have swapped two lanyard post wiring harnesses..no difference
I have swapped 3 MPEM with the only difference being sometimes red light for oil will go on and sometimes not depending on MPEM, as well as sometimes I will get one long beep after 2 short beeps when hitting start button and sometimes I will only get the two short beeps.

I have cleaned all grounds, checked continuity between grounds, and even added extra grounds to make sure. I disconnected coil to make sure it wasnt shorting/backfeeding into the system.

MPEM is getting power bcasue it is recognizing DESS key, and DESS key and post are functional becasue of the two beep recognition.

i have bypassed start stop button with no change in results

the starter relay is new and properly grounded. There is no power going to relay when hitting the start button no matter what MPEM or post I use.

I added a ground to the coil where there are three grounding wires connected.

I bypassed neutral switch and oil level switch with no change.

Battery is brand new. 16.8 volts. I thought that was high but i compared it to another brand new same battery and they are the same.

All I can think of now is:

the engine temp sensor is a single wire
there is a sensor that has to have a certain voltage or ohm reading going back to MPEM


WHAT THE HECK AM I MISSING????

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

I have to read through all this and see if something pops out, but 16.8 volts is really high, by four volts. Unless that battery just came off a charger or the voltmeter is a little off. I'm assuming we're talking about an vented lead-acid and not some other chemistry like glass mat or something. Hook something across that thing and discharge it for a half hour or so to see if you can get the voltage down to a reasonable at-rest value, less that 13v would be nice.

16.8 just sounds so unbelievable to me..... I have to think you've tried a battery that doesn't have such an excessive voltage output, 16.8 would scare me into thinking about MPEM damage.

Otherwise, I dunno have to carefully comb through all of the above... I've read of corroded, lose connectors on ebox's and all kind of things including lose grounds, etc... still sifting through your beep report.

Edit:

So let me see if I've got this right, everything seems normal except the starter solenoid doesn't receive voltage from the MPEM when you press the start button, nothing else abnormal found yet, aside from the oil light issue, correct?

If so, maybe this is batt voltage too high, removing the yellow/red wire on the starter solenoid should let you to jump from the battery + to the solenoid and get the engine to crank. A 15 second cranking session should drag the battery down a bit, a few cycles should take some of that high voltage out of the battery. Wow, 16.8volts.......

 

[ryder1541]

Sorry for the jumbo of information..

I agree with 16 volts sounding high. I have 2 identical batteries both brand new and both are reading 16+ volts. One of them hasnt even been charged after being filled with acid. It has been over 100 degrees here the last week so that might effect a little bit. Il try draining one a bit and see if that changes anything. They are Yuasa batteries

I am also pulling the flywheel tomorrow to see if there is a short somewhere with the stator wires, thats the only thing left i can think of.

 

[ryder1541]

Exactly. I read up on Yuasa website about voltage. Apparently checking voltage with a multimeter is "inaccurate" when a dry cell battery is just filled and brand new, "before it has gone through several duty cycles"

It cranks over just fine when jumping the solenoid with a screwdriver.

Rechecked voltage...Back down to 12.71. It has cooled off about 15 degrees ambient temperature since I got a read of 16+ as well.

WTF!!

 

[ryder1541]

UPDATE

Replaced stator thinking it might be shorting somewhere...no change.

Advanced diagnostic yields 2 beeps.

No power

Anyone have suggestions? This ski is eating me up all I want to do is sell it!!

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

"Replaced stator thinking it might be shorting somewhere" - So would unplugging it!

"No power" - Does this mean gauges don't power up if start button is pressed while lanyard is removed?

Advanced Diagnostics:

2 Short Beeps - MPEM cannot read lanyard cap, or magnet is defective. Miswired lanyard switch connectors.

2 Long Beeps - Wrong safety lanyard, or bad connection of DESS wires.

 

[ryder1541]

I will try that tomorrow.

Even if it does start, the hot lead going from start relay top MPEM still isnt getting power as it should. I checked this directly at MPEM

I understand what your saying for the stator, I read a thread where the guy was having 2 beeps and no start, and replacing stator fixed it..oh well.

I have bypassed sensor for oil level, what I think is a neutral sensor. No change.

Is there an oil pump/sensor etc that can prevent from starting?

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

"Is there an oil pump/sensor etc that can prevent from starting? "

Nothing I can think of. Oil tank warning won't stop anything from happening.

How did dealership program your lanyards, through your DESS post? MPEM must be programmed to accept the specific key, not sure if anti-theft can be disabled.

I don't think skies have neutral switches?

 

[ryder1541]

they plugged their handheld comuter into the ski and DESS key. He told me the hours on it and said it successfully programmed

I also bought an OEM used MPEM on ebay with DESS key programmed to it. Installed and tested and there is no change

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

"they plugged their handheld comuter into the ski and DESS key."

That's good, it confirms your DESS post works. Can't check for spark unless engine can crank, if ski starts by jumping solenoid while pressing start button simultaneously then at least you'll know ignition, fuel system and engine are working.

Another way to eliminate stator and rectifier is by disconnecting red rectifier wire from rectifier. Assuming the rectifier is external to MPEM. Later skies the rectifier is inside MPEM.

Do you have the electrical schematic for your ski?

I don't know if you have variable tilt(maybe no), sometimes unplugging VTS can resolve problems but not sure the details.

I'm downloading the shop manual and intend on looking it over in the morning.

"the engine temp sensor is a single wire" - Just saw this again. Not sure if you're saying a wire is missing, I'll look at schematic. Engine might not start if MPEM thinks it's overheated, not sure...

 

[ryder1541]

I really appreciate your help..Ski cranks when jumping solenoid, il check tomorrow while hitting the start button simultaneously.

It is an external rectifier. I will try that also tomorrow.

Dont have a schematic. By now I have a good idea of where everything goes and can trace wires easily.

The temp sensor is a single wire(looks like it should only be a single wire) that I think grounds out when overheated?

Im really glad you mentioned these two things as they are kinda the last things left lol.

Thanks again for your help!!

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Well, the service manual is rather large (51MB) and I'm not able to download and open the file for some reason.

On the overtemp alarm, I suppose you could power on the gauges while the sensor wire is jumpered to ground and the temp alarm might (should?) appear.

Not sure what else you might check. Might ask someone if the DESS can be disabled, just see if eliminating the possibility is possible.

You might want to mix up a small amount of pre-mix and shoot some in the carbs and cylinders so if the ignition does work, there's be something there to burn and lubricate. about 32:1 like you use in your weed eater. It doesn't have to be exact, just needs a bit of 2-stroke oil in it for lube.

 

[ryder1541]

Well I have officially given up. Took to the dealer for diagnosis. 99 bucks down the drain. i will let yall know what it turns out to be. I must have missed something when I was trying to diagnose it. hopefully their fancy scanner can figure it out quick!

Thanks all for the help!

 

[frankcottnj]

Hi, did you ever resolve this?
frank

 

[ryder1541]

Hi, did you ever resolve this?
frank

It was the simplist thing...plug at solenoid wasnt making contact