98 Gtx Starter Cutting Out

[CreekerMike]

Greetings and salutations to all, Im new hear on this forum and I've already found lots of great info! But... thats aside from the point.
I have a 98' Gtx Ltd with the 951 engine. I just finished replacing the engine (previous owner managed to bend a rod somehow). Upon starting the new engine the starter would cut out after a second or two. I removed the plugs to see it it was compression related thinking this could possibly be a weak starter or bad connection. It still continued to cut out. I sanded and checked all my connections. Still continued to cut out. I did some research on other threads and saw alot of people say a bad dess connection could cause this. My thought is the START/STOP switch itself. Ide love to get opinions before i start throwing parts at it. All opinions and thoughts will be greatly appreciated!

 

[jts32]

Have had this issue before with a couple of skis. It wasn't that the start/stop switch that was bad, it was the button that had deteriorated over 20 years and didn't consistently engage the switch. May not be the issue, but if your button is in poor shape and needs replacing, it's worth the $7-8 to rule it out.

 

[CreekerMike]

Jts32 I asume your talking about the red rubber button that inserts into the groove of the START/STOP switch, I have already gone about replacing that. The old degraded one bugged the heck out of me. That being said i do not think thats the problem. I can clearly hear a click when pressing on it. Another thing to note is that intermittently i get very weak beeps (sound weis) not sure if the current for the beeper flows through the DESS post. But if it does than im going to be leaning more and more towards the DESS post.

 

[mikidymac]

Have you verified your battery is good.

Check the bolts when it is at rest and when cranking. If it ever drops below 12v the battery is bad.

 

[CreekerMike]

Mikidymac! Great to see you chimed in, I read a thread about fuel line/ pulse line routing that you replied to and it was a big help. Currently i do not have a battery for this ski, im starting it off a duracell jump pack that is brand spankin new. The pack is rated at something like 3 or 4 hundred cca (cold cranking amps) this pack puts out about 14-15 volts (its li-po or li-on)

 

[kmarts]

Mikidymac! Great to see you chimed in, I read a thread about fuel line/ pulse line routing that you replied to and it was a big help. Currently i do not have a battery for this ski, im starting it off a duracell jump pack that is brand spankin new. The pack is rated at something like 3 or 4 hundred cca (cold cranking amps) this pack puts out about 14-15 volts (its li-po or li-on)

DO NOT USE A JUMP PACK. You risk frying the mpem (computer) with that voltage.

 

[Matt Braley]

The 98 951 MPEM needs a 98 GSX/GTX flywheel and cup. I have been through this many times on 98GSX's. I don't think throwing other parts at it are going to help. I stubbornly swapped an entire wiring harness once. If you can get the flywheel and cup from the original engine then the problem will stop.

 

[CreekerMike]

Ouch i wasnt aware the pack could hurt the electronics, guess ill get a battery asap. I have my old flywheel and cup but how does this cause the starter to cut out? Is the cup positioned wrong and the motor thinks the engine is firing so its cutting the starter?

 

[Matt Braley]

You can't rotate a cup on another flywheel to make it work. Not sure of the exact thing that makes it do that but I have changed MPEM's everything. Perhaps it's more of a common issue like the other members were helping you with. be sure to cover your basics like they were saying. With the flywheel thing the power to the solenoid kicks in and out, not just in and then out.

If your battery pack is a loose plastic box with cables coming off it then that has a 12v battery in it. It's very important not to jump from a boosted source and your tool is a "booster pack" so it's confusing. The boosted sources that blow MPEM's are high amp battery chargers, running cars, etc.

 

[CreekerMike]

Thank you for the clarification, im gonna try replacing the DESS post (have one on the way with 2 day priority), if that doesnt fix the issue then ill return it and look into swapping the flywheel and cup. I still have the old parts on the crank with the bent con rod.

 

[CreekerMike]

Update: i got a new 3 wire DESS post and a new AGM sealed battery. Ill be installing them later. Hopefully this will be the end of my issues.

 

[Matt Braley]

Just plug it in to the connection underneath the front bucket so you can see if it changes anything without having to take your steering apart.

 

[CreekerMike]

Ive already pulled the cover off the handle bars. It appears this DESS post has been changed before. It was connected via butt connecters then sealed with silicone to keep water out. Im just gonna use that method. First off im gonna just twist the wires together and test it too see if it is the problem. If not i may send this post back. But then again it wouldnt be a bad idea to have a new post as the old one is sort of lose. I greatly apreciate the suggestion though!

 

[CreekerMike]

Well the verdict in in and sigh... it wasnt the dess post or the battery. Looks like i may be returning this post. Isnt much tighter than the one that was on there either. Onto the next solution right!

 

[GGuillot]

Im just gonna use that method. First off im gonna just twist the wires together and test it too see if it is the problem.

That's not a preferred method, I wouldn't cut anything on a DESS post, they're sensitive as crap and you change the ohms. The preferred method is to fish it through the steering or take the pins out to remove the connector and fish it through.

 

[CreekerMike]

That's not a preferred method, I wouldn't cut anything on a DESS post, they're sensitive as crap and you change the ohms. The preferred method is to fish it through the steering or take the pins out to remove the connector and fish it through.

Ill look into doing that with the new DESS post and see if anything changes. I knew they were sesitive but i figured good butts or soldering would do it. Thanks for chiming in!

 

[jts32]

Works awesome, and never have to cut the wiring ever again

 

[CreekerMike]

View attachment 39906
Works awesome, and never have to cut the wiring ever again

Is this the tool i need to disconnect the pins? If so ill look into getting one. Itl come in handy with the project XP

 

[jts32]

Is this the tool i need to disconnect the pins? If so ill look into getting one. Itl come in handy with the project XP

Yes it is. It will work on both ends of a plug-in

 

[CreekerMike]

Alright, i got the terminal release tool ordered and im gonna be using it to install the brand new post whenever it arrives in the mail. Does anyone have anyother thoughts as to what could be causing the starter to choke up like this. Ive double checked and sanded all my connections. I have used several batteries. I have ensured the key is very well secure and not having a conectivity issue. Ive removed the plugs and it still does it. Could Matt Braley be correct about me needing the flywheel and cup off the original motor? I dont see how this would have a huge effect but thats not to say im not wrong or misinformed. My next thoughts are the start stop switch itself or the solenoid. Maybe theres a bad connection in there and one of them isnt doing their job or keeping the gate closed?

 

[jts32]

Matt knows his sh*t, and Dan gave his post the thumbs up, so I would do as they suggest and replace the flywheel and cup from the original motor.

 

[CreekerMike]

Matt knows his sh*t, and Dan gave his post the thumbs up, so I would do as they suggest and replace the flywheel and cup from the original motor.

Bugger i was afraid someone would say that, well looks like ill be tearing into the ski again. Ive got it down to a science at this point so it shouldnt be too bad. Thank you all

 

[DanSquires]

I had a 98 GTXL come in that would kick out the bendix after about two or three revolutions after he bought and installed a complete fresh rebuild off ebay. Tried a fresh battery, jumping the start button, jumping the solenoid, changed out the mpem, changed out the wiring harness, changed out the DESS, changed the ground wire.. everything I could think of. Then it sheared some teeth off of the bendix. So, I pulled it, opened up the front cover, and there it was.. there was a 99+ flywheel with the 98 mag cup. The mag cup was aligned with the hole in the flywheel, like the manual stated, which causes the alignment to be incorrect on a 98. I replaced the bendix, flywheel, reinstalled and boom, worked like a champ.

FYI, you CAN use a 99+ flywheel with a single coil mag cup, but you must align the two holes in the cup to the dirt spots on the flywheel., not the way the manual states. Ultimately, the cup is rotated one bolt clockwise.

 

[CreekerMike]

I had a 98 GTXL come in that would kick out the bendix after about two or three revolutions after he bought and installed a complete fresh rebuild off ebay. Tried a fresh battery, jumping the start button, jumping the solenoid, changed out the mpem, changed out the wiring harness, changed out the DESS, changed the ground wire.. everything I could think of. Then it sheared some teeth off of the bendix. So, I pulled it, opened up the front cover, and there it was.. there was a 99+ flywheel with the 98 mag cup. The mag cup was aligned with the hole in the flywheel, like the manual stated, which is incorrect. I replaced the bendix, flywheel, reinstalled and boom, worked like a champ.

FYI, you CAN use a 99+ flywheel with a single coil mag cup, but you must align the two holes in the cup to the dirt spots on the flywheel., not the way the manual states. Ultimately, the cup is rotated one bolt clockwise.

Thank you dan, this is making more sense to me as im reading into it, i wish i hadve knows this before i went through the assembly process, but hey live and learn. Presumably im going to need a puller for the flywheel and cup, will this one do the trick? Also can i pull the flywheel and cup off the old bottom end as one piece and just plop them on? Or does something need to be adjusted or set?

 

[CreekerMike]

Here are the pictures of the flywheel and cup that is is on the original rotating assembly that was in the blown motor, not sure if it helps at all but im sure you all can use this.