96 Seadoo Sportster 717 Crankcase Leak?

[shendricks25]

Hi everyone, I'm Stephanie. This is my first time posting and owning a boat. I purchased a 1996 Seadoo Sportster with the 717 motor after being told it only needed a shifter cable. I replaced it myself thanks to SBT. When I put it in the water, it ran like like a champ for about 30 minutes, then it bogged out and even at full throttle would not go past approximately 5 mph, however it was not not revving high. It never died on me and still starts right up. It is leaking water out of the purple exhaust pipe and leaking from a gap in the seal where the bottom part of the crankcase is clearly bowed out a bit from the top portion. I have photos. I checked the compression and it is 150 in one cylinder and 140 in the other. I am now clearly concerned because this was supposed to be something that the kids and I could make memories with being that we live on Lake Huron, but now it sits in my driveway because I sank my savings into it (lessons learned). Can anyone please help out with some options and suggestions? Hopefully the water leak is the only thing causing it to bog out after 30 mins or so. I know it's going to cost me, but how much is the question. I assumed gaskets and maybe a weld or JB Weld on the exhaust, but I'm lost if I have to try and switch out the case due to the dissembling of the motor. I would like to have it back out this year before the end of the season. I do have a manual, but don't know all the terminology quite yet. Thanks everyone in advance!!!

 

[racerxxx]

Unfortunately the previous owner did not winterize the engine correctly and it froze and the cylinder pushed out---the bulge. To properly fix it you would need to replace the effected cylinder(s). Can you post good pics of where the pipe is leaking from?

Sorry for the bad news, but welcome to the best Seadoo forum out there. We'll do our best to get you sorted out.

 

[Steelmesh]

I don't know how mechanically inclined / brave you are, but there is a chance you could find a new jug (cylinder) for any 717 and slap it on there with the existing piston. This assumes (<<<danger>>>) a stock piston is matched to a stock cylinder. You could start by removing the cylinder head to get more pictures and see the extent of the damage. Please keep all the bolts and parts organized in case you end of selling it as is, this will improve your credibility that you know somewhat now how to service machines.

I purchased a 1996 Seadoo Sportster single 717 last fall. I got it for $500 complete, but it was blown out nasty and the engine was completely blown with a hole in the crankcase. I am now $2,200 invested with maybe 20 hours of work so far. I am still getting beat up with stuff like the dang neutral switch that costs $150 for OEM or $75 for a knockoff, but the switch looks like something on digikey.com for $0.85

B. O. A. T. stands for, Bust Out Another Thousand, it seems like a joke but it is reality. What you're experiencing is just a fraction of what people have to spend on larger boats, it is hard to believe. For example, my buddies 32' Sundancer canvas enclosure bimini thing costs $9,000 to replace. He also has 2- V8 engines, omg you would need to rent a crane if you wanted to DIY replace one of the engines. I digress.

 

[shendricks25]

Thank you for the quick reply and I appreciate the help I have a couple more pictures (the best I could do leaning over the boat) and I am going to take the cylinder head cover off and then I can post those pictures soon. When it was at full throttle, there was a steady stream of water spraying out of both places circled (the gap in the crankcase and the front of the exhaust) so the streams of water intersected. There is also the spray coming out of the back of the exhaust where I circled. It is the circle weld behind those wires. So what should I be shopping for exactly? I looked on ebay and craigslist but I'm not sure of what I need. Locally, there are a few parts "junkyards" but I don't know if that would be the best route to go. Sorry if it doesn't make the most sense, it's definitely a learning process.

 

[Steelmesh]

Thank you for the quick reply and I appreciate the help I have a couple more pictures (the best I could do leaning over the boat) and I am going to take the cylinder head cover off and then I can post those pictures soon. When it was at full throttle, there was a steady stream of water spraying out of both places circled (the gap in the crankcase and the front of the exhaust) so the streams of water intersected. There is also the spray coming out of the back of the exhaust where I circled. It is the circle weld behind those wires. So what should I be shopping for exactly? I looked on ebay and craigslist but I'm not sure of what I need. Locally, there are a few parts "junkyards" but I don't know if that would be the best route to go. Sorry if it doesn't make the most sense, it's definitely a learning process. View attachment 40336View attachment 40337View attachment 40338

I would recommend holding off and figuring out the major stuff first before buying things to get an idea of the maximum cost you're looking at.

As racerxxx spotted, the engine probably froze. Other places I can think of for water to freeze is inside the purple exhaust pipe and robber hoses/fittings. Your pictures suggest the gasket between the purple and the cylinder head is leaking, but we can't rule out the Purple pipe has been damaged from freezing that is causing the leak at this interface.

Get the purple pipe off and also the head and cylinder head cover and start looking for crackings and also warpage of surfaces that should be flat.

So potential parts you need and need to verify if you need are:
*!!warning!! these links were the first relevant results on ebay search and not suggesting the best/cheapest listing!!*

Cylinders (2x), these are often called Jugs. Search term "717 jug"
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-SeaDoo...ash=item44036ce8cf:g:a1UAAOSw8lpZFhas&vxp=mtr

Cylinder head, get a straight edge and check it at all angles there should be no rocking of the straight edge or gaps. Search term "717 cylinder head"
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SEA-DOO-717...ash=item1c87beb3ff:g:ls0AAOSwCU1Y2yIR&vxp=mtr

Exhaust pipe, for 2-strokes a 'Pipe' is the bulging tube section of all post 1980s 2-strokes, Search term "717 exhaust pipe"
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-Seadoo-...ash=item212776badf:g:p0IAAOSw53NY9WvL&vxp=mtr

You may need pistons, or take a calculated risk with stock pistons with used stock jugs. You may want to invest in feeler gauges to check piston clearance, stick piston in assigned cylinder, stick feeler gauge between piston and cylinder wall, ask for the spec IDK right now. I think a T-gauge and calipers or mics will be expensive, let alone a dial bore gauge (I don't even own one...) to measure piston-to-bore clearance.

 

[shendricks25]

I will get started checking those that you listed and I will definitely post updates soon. Thanks again!!!

 

[Lumps]

Hi Stephanie.

one of the leaks you have is one that I had on my boat. if I understand correctly, the leak is in the "circle" on the muffler? These are left overs from how the part was cast. they need to make channels for where the water goes. they then plug the openings that are left with an aluminum plug. when mine went, it sprayed directly into the opening on the air box. this caused the boat to bog down the same way as you are describing. maybe this is happening on yours?

anyway, the seadoo mechanic we went to said he could weld new plugs in for what ever he was going to change but he said on his own he only grinds them clean and then puts a layer of epoxy over the plug. I think he charged me 25$ to do all of them on the engine. he said they would not last as long as new ones but it would be way cheaper. after a number of years they were still good.

anyway, pretty cheap to fix by yourself if you want to DIY. even if you have to redo it again at some point.

 

[shendricks25]

So after taking things apart and getting a look inside, I believe everything looks good except where that cylinder jug was bowed out, but I could be mistaken. After looking at the cylinder off the boat, I can see where the previous owner used some type of epoxy on it to try and fix what was probably a crack in the jug. I have more pictures now. Thank you for all this great advice, you guys are great!!!

 

[racerxxx]

Yeah, it would be nice to replace that cylinder. There should be black o-rings to seal the cylinder to to the head. I see one is cut and the other doesn't have one. You'll need to order those unless you buy a top end gasket kit.

On your exhaust pipe, the leak on that plug is no good. You can JB weld it, but eventually it will come back and leak. I happen to make the correct plugs for those. But, you'll need to grind the old one off and have a new one welded on. Perhaps where the exhaust bolts on to the top of the manifold it just needed to be tightened or just the gasket replaced.



Here is what I'm talking about, you can see the work involved

 

[Steelmesh]

For the engine issues, doesn't look like anything else is cracked or in pieces which is good.

Since the water leaks are related to this jug (for water leaks other than the exhaust and hose fittings), the responsible fix is to replace that jug and install all new o-rings, jug base gaskets, exhaust gaskets. The irresponsible fix is to JB weld it, ehem.

Can someone confirm, I think you can just replace the 1-side jug without removing the other, need to cut the base gasket in half. I have a PDF with detailed info for assembly unless you already googled it. It's always the small details that I worry about, like bolting down the exhaust manifold to the jugs before torquing the jugs to ensure alignment.

Remember if you pull the engine or unbolt the mounts, you will need to re-align the engine...but top end work can be done in the boat so there shouldn't be a need to remove it.

 

[shendricks25]

I must say that I expected things to be much worse once I took the cylinder head cover off. This is the boat in it's current state. I am at this very moment looking for the gaskets I need and also finding the right cylinder jug to replace the damaged one. I found a place online that sells them for $60 for the standard bore, $45 for 1st over, and $35 for 2nd or ugly core shipped. I could always use a PDF or any additional guidance to the manual because I too worry about missing something.
Also, I am wanting to clean up the cylinder head and cover since I'm at a standstill until I order and receive the part and gaskets. Is there any recommendations for cleaners that are effective? As far as cleaning up the pistons, I don't want to take them off if I don't have to.

 

[Steelmesh]

Also, how does the 'Exhaust Manifold' look? Like the interface part of it to the Purple Pipe at least?

http://www.seadoosource.com/usedpics/u290979142a.jpg

 

[shendricks25]

I just ran out and took some pictures.


So as for gaskets, is this all I would need to reassemble?
http://www.shopsbt.com/jetski/sea-doo-top-end-gasket-kit-717-hx-xp-gti-gsi-gts.html

 

[bledt]

I have no experience on the jug swelling issue, not a problem here in SE Louisiana!
But you had a exhaust leak, and that is probably why you started running bad after half hour, the exhaust fumes were filling the engine compartment.

 

[bledt]

I have a pair of jugs and a cylinder head. I would do you a better price than ebay (the kids and I love my 96 speedster). Either way, I would recommend sending them off and going with a full top end rebuild. That's what my buddy did when owned my boat.

 

[jma1971]

I also am in need of a set of jugs as long as they aren't already sold

 

[shendricks25]

I had already ordered one and mine should arrive today hopefully so if bledt still has them for sale, go ahead

 

[shendricks25]

So I received my cylinder and new gaskets the other day. I was having a friend put the pistons in the cylinder and a ring broke and I think it may have fallen into the crank (down where the hole is around the piston). We flushed it with oil and even used a magnet to feel around for the broken section of piston ring and I cannot find it. Sometimes I swear if I didn't have bad luck I would have no luck at all. I don't think I am experienced enough to split the crank so anyone have any suggestions? Ugh

 

[bledt]

Vacuum? That has to be frustrating. Did it fall in the exhaust or intake cylinder port hole?

 

[shendricks25]

It fell into the intake cylinder port hole

 

[bledt]

Remove the intake? Should be in the crankcase there?

 

[racerxxx]

DO NOT REMOVE THE INTAKE.

You can see just as much down the top of the crankcase if not more than going thru the intake port. As someone already mentioned, vacuum. Get a shop vac, use a small 1/4" tube for an ice maker from Home Depot or Lowes. Get the clear vinyl stuff its really pliable. Turn the shop vac on and stick the tube inside the shop vac hose, use either tape or your hand to "block off" the huge gap around the vacuum hose so all the vacuum is going thru the little line. Fish that around in the crank case.

Get a strong earth magnet, attach it to a metal coat hanger over night. Bend the coat hanger so it can fit under the counter weights of the crank. See if you can catch the ring with the magnet.

 

[racerxxx]

Here's the 2 views. Thru the intake you can't see the bottom

 

[Steelmesh]

If your friend is not sure where the broken ring piece went also look outside of the engine, check / feel all around the engine, under the block, under the engine mount. I have a thing with dropping tiny parts, I seem to find them in the least likely area, like under some old cabinet 20 feet away. So also look around the bilge, under hoses, top of gas tank, etc.

If the cylinder had a proper chamfer, there is no reason to need to force the piston, also some automotive rings are directional, so a flipped ring installed could jam up potentially.

Do you have a flexible magnet tool, I think that is a good idea to keep trying. I got a nice flexible pickup tool, it is like a thick wire you can bend by hand and it stays in position.

 

[dieselndoo]

Within the ring guides, there's a pin in each groove. That's where the ring collapses to. Also, try to install the cylinder as straight as possible. Any type of twisting will break a ring