96 Sea-Doo XP not getting spark

[freeman068]

Ok. To start off I have scoured all the forums and the manual to figure this out and I've tried all the tests. My XP has no spark.

Ran perfect last year and when I was getting it ready this year I put the ground to the coil on the positive battery terminal like an idiot. Cooked the wire and the coil for sure. Replaced those, replaced the CDI with an eBay one that I was assured came from a running ski.

Tested the MPEM, the new coil, the relay, the trigger wire, the stator, cleaned the pickup out and the bracket is good, fuses are all good, couple wires replaced in rear box, plug wires trimmed, new plugs, cleaned pins, reading voltage off of white wire at coil when turning ski over. All electronics work, beeps twice, turns over great, just no spark.

All multimeter readings are good except when reading the white wire to black on CDI, manual says it's supposed to be something like 2 mega ohms, but both of my CDIs read zero. Is that right? Did I end up with a dud from eBay?

I ordered a new MPEM to see if that's the problem but after that I have no other moves. Any ideas would be helpful.

 

[artr]

I had a intermittent problem with no spark on my 96 GTX. Replaced CDI twice, Turned out to be the holder relay, which supplies 12V to the CDI would turn on when the key was inserted allowing the 2 beeps, but would sometimes drop when cranking. You could look at this with a volt meter on the red-purple wire going to the CDI will cranking. Replaced holder relay.
Also easy to check the battery voltage while cranking. If it is below 10 volts, then the engine might crank ok but the CDI won't fire. Also make sure the small black wire that goes to the negative battery terminal from the rear electrical box is making good connections at both end.

 

[freeman068]

Small black wire is good. Relay tested fine according to manual but I will give that a try. Battery voltage shows good and it was new last year but I'll try a different one out. Thanks for the suggestions!

 

[Major Woody]

I have a holder relay for a 96 XP if you need it.

 

[freeman068]

I have a holder relay for a 96 XP if you need it.

Thanks mate, I'll keep that in mind

 

[freeman068]

Quick question for anyone. I replaced the whole rear electrical box with a used one and the PO set up the fuses wrong. I fixed that but am wondering if they set the coil up wrong too. Does the white wire go to positive and the ground to negative on the coil?

 

[freeman068]

Quick question for anyone. I replaced the whole rear electrical box with a used one and the PO set up the fuses wrong. I fixed that but am wondering if they set the coil up wrong too. Does the white wire go to positive and the ground to negative on the coil?

Might as well ask what the orientation of the plug wires should be on the coil too

 

[freeman068]

I have a holder relay for a 96 XP if you need it.

Shoot me a price on that holder relay when you get a chance. Still waiting on an MPEM but can't hurt to have a relay handy

 

[jhjesse]

On the 96 model 787 engines the trigger coil was known to fail due to the bracket cracking and breaking off. If it has not been replaced with an upgraded one, it is very possible that could be your problem.
I would remove the front mag cover and check.

 

[freeman068]

On the 96 model 787 engines the trigger coil was known to fail due to the bracket cracking and breaking off. If it has not been replaced with an upgraded one, it is very possible that could be your problem.
I would remove the front mag cover and check.

Thanks for the reply. Bracket was checked and all good. Tested all the wires and also good. Still waiting on MPEM to arrive tomorrow to rule that out. Next will be replacing stator and trigger coil since it's about the last thing I can think of if the MPEM isn't the issue.

 

[Ckrawiec]

Sounds like you have done some excellent diagnostic work so far.....I assume you've checked this but I'll throw it out here anyway:

1) do you have POWER into the CDI from the relay - Red/purple wire through a 5 amp fuse from the Relay Holder
2)CDI - Black (next to Red/purple) is ground
3) CDI - White is the Ignition Coil trigger
4) CDI - Yellow/white is the signal FROM the stator pickup
5) CDI - Black/orange and Black/green - go nowhere
6) CDI - Black/Grey/white & White/blue come from the MPEM

Since you get crank.....at least we know the MPEM is sending the solenoid signal on the Yellow/red wire.

Could be a bad CDI module.....my '96 GTX doesn't have the CDI (it was incorporated into the MPEM later in that model year) and I guess I have a "newer" model.

Have you checked every connection for corrosion - even a little bit somewhere could cause you fits.....good luck.

Lastly....grasping at straws here.....have you tried replacing the spark boots? They are a resistive type that screw into the plug wires.....cheap enough to rule those out......and you've tested continuity through the spark plug wires themselves - yes?

PS: There is a YouTube video titled Seadoo XP No spark.....watch that...the guy did a bang up job diagnosing and documenting the process. Just found it myself.....

 

[etemplet]

Yep, the CDI module could very well be the problem. I tested one using all the ohm tests and such and nothing much seemd out of place. I had a spare I tested along side and the readings were really close to the same... I plugged the spare in and the ski started right up. You never know what it is going to be for sure

I have much discussion on a thread for my personal XP. It was unbelievable what I found. I certainly got to know the ski very well. Basically I had a coil issue and the ski would only start when I let off the starter button. LOL We played hide and seek and I ended up replacing the whole rear electric box with a spare I had. I believe the coil was bad and couldn't put out the necessary spark when the starter was engaged as it was too much of a curret drain. Soon as I let off the start button the engine would fire right up but as long as I held the start button it would not start. I checked the spark many times and it was showing the coil was firing but it was a bit dim but not enough to notice. As it got dark and the skeeters came out I noticed a difference in the level of light coming from the tester. Good Luck.... savor the victory !! .

 

[freeman068]

Sounds like you have done some excellent diagnostic work so far.....I assume you've checked this but I'll throw it out here anyway:

1) do you have POWER into the CDI from the relay - Red/purple wire through a 5 amp fuse from the Relay Holder
2)CDI - Black (next to Red/purple) is ground
3) CDI - White is the Ignition Coil trigger
4) CDI - Yellow/white is the signal FROM the stator pickup
5) CDI - Black/orange and Black/green - go nowhere
6) CDI - Black/Grey/white & White/blue come from the MPEM

Since you get crank.....at least we know the MPEM is sending the solenoid signal on the Yellow/red wire.

Could be a bad CDI module.....my '96 GTX doesn't have the CDI (it was incorporated into the MPEM later in that model year) and I guess I have a "newer" model.

Have you checked every connection for corrosion - even a little bit somewhere could cause you fits.....good luck.

Lastly....grasping at straws here.....have you tried replacing the spark boots? They are a resistive type that screw into the plug wires.....cheap enough to rule those out......and you've tested continuity through the spark plug wires themselves - yes?

PS: There is a YouTube video titled Seadoo XP No spark.....watch that...the guy did a bang up job diagnosing and documenting the process. Just found it myself.....

You're the second person to tell me to check power into the CDI. I have yet to try it but will tomorrow. I already swapped out the CDI for a used one from eBay. Maybe I got a dud replacement. I tested both CDIs and the only reading that was off on both of them was between ground and white wire. Manual says something around 2 mega ohms and both of mine are 0. Not sure if im testing it wrong or something. I get voltage from CDI to coil when cranking though.

I have gone through all of the wires and pins, replaced a couple wires and trimmed back a few more. Swapped out the coil, wires, and boots with a used one from eBay. Have a brand new coil, wires, and boots coming in the mail.

I've seen and followed the video with manual in hand. Ordered a new aftermarket MPEM which turned out to be a massive waste of time and money. Sent it back and my new oem one shows up tomorrow. Here's to hoping it cures my problem!

If anyone knows why my CDI reading from ground to white wire is off I would love an answer. I was "guaranteed" the CDI I ordered came from a working ski so that's what I'm going off of

 

[artr]

I had originally ordered to replacement CDI's because my CDI's resistance readings did not match what was in manual. Neither did any of the replacement CDI's match either. I know you said you checked the holder relay according to the manual but that is a static check. Mine passed the static check also but the 12 V would drop while cranking probably due to the fact that the relay contacts were corroded from passing high current which won't show up in a static resistance test. It is not a difficult test with a voltmeter and can save you a lot of trouble if that is the cause. After replacing the holder relay all 3 CDI's work perfectly.

 

[freeman068]

I had originally ordered to replacement CDI's because my CDI's resistance readings did not match what was in manual. Neither did any of the replacement CDI's match either. I know you said you checked the holder relay according to the manual but that is a static check. Mine passed the static check also but the 12 V would drop while cranking probably due to the fact that the relay contacts were corroded from passing high current which won't show up in a static resistance test. It is not a difficult test with a voltmeter and can save you a lot of trouble if that is the cause. After replacing the holder relay all 3 CDI's work perfectly.

Good info, I just ordered one. I'll update when parts arrive.

 

[freeman068]

Ok, put in the new MPEM and Holder relay. Still no spark. I do have power into the CDI. So I went to check power to the coil via white wire with a test light this time, instead of a multimeter, and when I ground the test light to negative on battery and place light in connector of white wire while cranking I get spark AT THE PLUGS! (Checked via in line spark plug tester)... I didn't see my test light turn on but I checked again with volt meter and was getting some voltage, about 0.14v ish? (Is that enough?). Put white connector back onto coil and nothing. Can someone tell me I just need to swap a wire around or something???? Again, I was assured the CDI I purchased was from a working ski but I have no proof.

 

[artr]

The white wire to the coil is the output of the CDI to trigger the coil. I may be wrong but I do not think you can measure it directly with a test light or voltmeter. You need a special circuit called a Direct Voltage Adapter to measure it. I do not fully understand what you are saying above. It sounds like you used your test light on the white wire while cranking and got spark at the plugs (because the in line plug tester blinked). Did you use the in line plug tester on both plug to verify? But in order to get spark at the plugs the white wire must have been connected to the coil at that time. Then you say you put the white connector (is that the white wire?) back on the coil and get no spark. What color wire is connected to the white connector?
As recommended by Ckrawiec above, the Youtube video entitled Seadoo XP with no spark.... is an excellent step by step for diagnosing the problem on this engine. I believe this is the link to it:

 

[freeman068]

I watched and followed the video before posting here. I tested the white pulse wire from the CDI to coil by grounding my test light to the battery and probing the white wire while it was disconnected from the coil. Crank the engine and I have spark at plug. Didn't check both plugs, just the one. Reattach white pulse wire from CDI to coil back on to the negative terminal of coil and get nothing at the plug that had my spark tester.

I agree that it doesn't make sense for me to get spark at the plugs when I ground out the pulse wire from the CDI. Where is the power coming from?

I tested with multimeter and test light according to recommendation of others in similar forums

 

[Saludadoo]

Same issue no spark on my 96 either.
When you say you disconnect the white wire going to the coil pack in the rear of the ski and and touch it with the test light you get a flicker in your test light? which you are calling spark?
there is no way to get spark at the spark plug with no power hooked up to the coil.
can you post a video ?

 

[freeman068]

Same issue no spark on my 96 either.
When you say you disconnect the white wire going to the coil pack in the rear of the ski and and touch it with the test light you get a flicker in your test light? which you are calling spark?
there is no way to get spark at the spark plug with no power hooked up to the coil.
can you post a video ?

No, I don't see my test light bulb lighting up. when I connect my test light to white wire and turn engine over I see my In line spark plug tester lighting up. Yes, I can post a video in a couple days. I'm not sure how power is making it to the plugs but it is. I have a new coil coming soon so I'll try that also.

 

[Saludadoo]

This was a good post 96 XP Testing the CDI Module

 

[freeman068]

This was a good post 96 XP Testing the CDI Module

Thanks, I've read it and replaced several wires and cleaned all the pins. My machine worked great last year and I stored it correctly over winter. I'm going to recondition my battery for the hell of it and replace the coil when it arrives. That post you sent said CDI needs 11.3v to send spark, which is different from all the other forums saying 10.2v. my battery definitely doesn't send 11.3v after wire resistance to CDI.

Still no idea why I can get spark at plug if white wire is grounded instead of on coil. This would suggest my battery has enough power. I'll post video soon

 

[Saludadoo]

OK tonight I'm going to hook up my old oscilloscope and check to see what signal I'm getting to the CDI and out of the CDI
What part of the US are you located?

 

[freeman068]

OK tonight I'm going to hook up my old oscilloscope and check to see what signal I'm getting to the CDI and out of the CDI
What part of the US are you located?

I'm in Maine. In my first comment I mentioned that both of my CDIs tested out according to manual except between ground and white wire. Manual says something like 2 mega ohms of resistance and I have 0 on both CDIs. Not sure if I'm testing it wrong but that is the only reading that doesn't match up.

 

[Saludadoo]

This was on the post I listed.
This is to test the CDI black box in the white box in the front.
"On the connector that has three wires, place the negative lead on Gray/White and the positive lead on black."
"Just checked. On those wires it will give you a certain value and then keep climbing."
"The spec is 33K ohms and it's climbing toward 1M ohms"