95 XP Engine swap questions 717 to 657

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2fastnotfurious

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So I bought my original complete 95 xp with a 717 motor and within 2 days blew that motor up (I have a whole thread on it. FML)
So here's my ordeal.... My new (to me) 95 xp with a 717 actually came with 2 spare motors both 657! Freakin awesome deal! One seems like it has good compression and there isnt any lower end noise and the person I got it from stated that it had been rebuilt and I can clearly see that the gaskets have all been changed.. the other one is siezed... So my question is how hard would it be to drop one of the 657 motors into my blown up XP? I really dont care about the power difference as Ill just have my girlfriend ride that one..
Ive seen 657 motors in XP's but are the mounting plates, Drive shaft,electronics etc.. the same? Keep in mind I have a complete XP just sitting here waiting for a new powerplant.
Also can you use one of the double carbs from the XP to power these motors?
 
I know the motors will swap, probably without any electronics change, I'm sure someone will let us know. The carb. issue is no you won't be able to use the single carb, however you should be able to use the carbs. and manifold from the 717.

Lou
 
So would the exhaust work as well? I know it will bolt up and it looks like it would work just like I know the rvalve cover and therefore the double carbs all from the 720 motor I just don't want to do it and blow the damn thing up. So to sum up my question will I be able to just drop in the 580? Or do I need more stuff. Lol
 
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So are we talking about a 717 to a 657 swap or a 717 to 580 swap? If it's to a 580 it's a different story.

Lou
 
LouDoo said:
So are we talking about a 717 to a 657 swap or a 717 to 580 swap? If it's to a 580 it's a different story.

Lou
Click to expand...

I have the feeling he just mis-typed the size. In his post #1 he listed he has TWO 657s...otherwise it's clear as mud. :)
 
I would try selling the 2 580's and have the 717 rebuilt. I think you will be happier with the performance
 
I still have my 717 motor with blown bottom end, would the crank from a 580 work? Just have a frankenmotor?
 
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The 580 will bolt right into a late model GSX. Not that it really helps this thread . We used the electronics from the 717 also .
 
Ok so Im gonna start tearing into these motors tonight, MY MISSION....
1. See if the Crank Shaft for the 580 is interchangeable with the 717
2. See if the Running 580 will run off of the 717 electronics in my 95 XP
3. See if it will be able to run with everything 717; Carbs (minus oil injector this will be 580), Exhaust, pump, fuel and water.
So far Im pretty sure that the 580 will work fine in the XP with the 717 Electronics and such(just not sure of the tuning, itll prolly run like crap).. But honestly I know Im going to hate the power difference so my goal is not longevity in this ski, more of just to say that I CAN DO IT!... I already have a 580 with a siezed top end with good bottom end and a 717 with a crap Bottom I want to see if I can get one good 717 motor out of the two paperwieghts... sooooo.... Wish me luck!
I WILL CALL THIS FRANKENMOTOR>>>>
 
1. 587 and 717 cranks are not interchangeable, they are very different, 587 has a 64mm stroke, 717 has a 68mm stroke. the yellow 587 and the white 587 are even different from each other. don't even try it, it won't run.
2. electronics are similar but still different, not interchangeable.

rotary valve timing and duration different, ignition timing, exhaust system, etc. it's one big difference after another, you are fighting a losing battle.

your enthusiasm is applauded but you're better off sticking with the 717, imo. you will put a lot of time into this and I'm afraid you'll end up with an engine that won't run.

your only chance of using the 587 will be to use all of the accessories with the 587 including exhaust and electronics. either way, you will need to buy some parts.
 
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ski-d00 said:
1. 587 and 717 cranks are not interchangeable, they are very different, 587 has a 64mm stroke, 717 has a 68mm stroke. the yellow 587 and the white 587 are even different from each other. don't even try it, it won't run.
2. electronics are similar but still different, not interchangeable.

rotary valve timing and duration different, ignition timing, exhaust system, etc. it's one big difference after another, you are fighting a losing battle.

your enthusiasm is applauded but you're better off sticking with the 717, imo. you will put a lot of time into this and I'm afraid you'll end up with an engine that won't run.

your only chance of using the 587 will be to use all of the accessories with the 587 including exhaust and electronics. either way, you will need to buy some parts.
Click to expand...

The 587 will work in place of the 717. I just did it on my 99 seadoo sportster. My 18ft boat had 2 717 engines. Now I have 1 717 and 1 587 in the same boat. Both running of the same electrical system. I had a 96 spi with the good running 587 that I used as the donor. I pulled the whole motor with its Mount and exhaust still attached and dropped it right in. The electrics plugged right in. The timing is perfect. The cooling water flow runs different but I was easy to rout it the way the 587 needed it.
 
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shockazulu said:
The 587 will work in place of the 717. I just did it on my 99 seadoo sportster. My 18ft boat had 2 717 engines. Now I have 1 717 and 1 587 in the same boat. Both running of the same electrical system. I had a 86 spi with the good running 587 that I used as the donor. I pulled the whole motor with its Mount and exhaust still attached and dropped it right in. The electrics plugged right in. The timing is perfect. The cooling water flow runs different but I was easy to rout it the way the 587 needed it.
Click to expand...

Really???? That has got to be a real good hack job to work good!!! I want a pic of this as proof!!!! ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
The 717 has 30 more hp than the 587 so no way is the freshest of the 587's gonna pull that impeller.

Both the 587 and the 717 electrics are the 4 wire and will plug in and run but the 717 MPEM will have a higher rev limiter.

The exhaust manifolds will bolt up but the 717 one has larger ports and bosses for mounting the pipe.
 
Matt Braley said:
The 717 has 30 more hp than the 587 so no way is the freshest of the 587's gonna pull that impeller.

Both the 587 and the 717 electrics are the 4 wire and will plug in and run but the 717 MPEM will have a higher rev limiter.

The exhaust manifolds will bolt up but the 717 one has larger ports and bosses for mounting the pipe.
Click to expand...

I will get photos in a few days. But what I got is the 717 silver with everything the way it was. Next to it is the white 587 with its purple exhaust that connected right to the sportsters original water box. The carb on the 587 had its own fuel pump so I bypassed the external fuel pump for that engine. Keep in mind this is a twin engine boat. So if it had 2 85hp engines=170hp now it's 55hp+85hp=140hp so it ends up only being a smaller difference in total hp.
 
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shockazulu said:
I will get photos in a few days. But what I got is the 717 silver with everything the way it was. Next to it is the white 587 with its purple exhaust that connected right to the sportsters original water box. The carb on the 587 had its own fuel pump so I bypassed the external fuel pump for that engine. Keep in mind this is a twin engine boat. So if it had 2 85hp engines=170hp now it's 55hp+85hp=140hp so it ends up only being a smaller difference in total hp.
Click to expand...

I have got to see this! So you are running 2 different engines with a 30 HP difference on each side?
 
id like to see that you mays well just tie a rope to the 587 and thro it over. how many mph did you lose dose it tend to pull to the weak side. props tho its working
 
TheMachin0 said:
id like to see that you mays well just tie a rope to the 587 and thro it over. how many mph did you lose dose it tend to pull to the weak side. props tho its working
Click to expand...
To change the 1 motor I needed to pull the pump first. When I put it back together I decided to use the pump from the xp because it had a stainless impeller and I guessed it had the proper pitch to match the lower power of that engine. Also the sportster came with a aluminum impeller. Driving the boat yesterday pushing both throttle levers equally the rpm gauges went up equally and there was also no pull to one side. I thought I might have had to give more throttle to the smaller engine but that was not the case. For the speed I had the boat filed with my family of 5 and was only using half throttle and cruising at 35mph. I don't plan to run it wide open so I will never know how fast it will go.
One thing I did like was at low speeds I like to shut down one engine and the 587 had a quieted and nicer sound for this. I feel pretty sure later I could swap out the other 717 for a 587 and it should still have enought power to get 7 passengers up onto a plane. The 96 sportster came with only 1 717 engine but it was only 15 ft not 18ft.
 
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AdamA96XP said:
Running one engine can hydro lock the other I believe
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Pulling the boat to fast will hydro lock the engines. But just running 1 engine not on a plane will not force water through the system in the non running engine. It is the same as having the boat anchored out in a strong current.
 
manolocross said:
Really???? That has got to be a real good hack job to work good!!! I want a pic of this as proof!!!! ;)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


20140427_160906.jpg
This 1 photo shows the only "Jerry Rigged" part to the whole swap. It is how I attached the choke cable from the sportster to the carburetor on the 587. I used a piece of wire tightened into the fitting using the allen screw. Then I used pull ties to fasten the coke cable to the piece of wire.
 
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That's good to know. Why does everyone say to pinch the line when towing a Seadoo though? Isn't it the same concept?
 
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