95 XP Constant Crank

[PolarCelsius]

Ski has a dead starter, owner fried it from it constantly cranking, solenoid fried too, I put a new solenoid into it and it clicks again, doesn't turn over because I know the starter is dead.
As soon as the key is attached (pre DESS) the solenoid clicks, and is constantly getting energized, pull the 5amp fuse from the MPEM and it stops, put it back in, it stops, press start button or reseat key, goes off again.

I cut the start button right at the button to expose and seperate the wires because the button sucked and thought it was always being pressed, it could still be shorting down the line though, a new button and wires are coming in the mail.

I have a voltmeter, where should I test?

 

[Ckrawiec]

Your post says - 95 XP, but your profile says '96 GSX 787.
See attached '95 XP wiring diagram....if you don't already have it.

 

[PolarCelsius]

I just picked up this ski lastnight in addition to my GSX, I havnt added it to my profile yet my apologies

 

[Ckrawiec]

I just picked up this ski lastnight in addition to my GSX, I havnt added it to my profile yet my apologies

No apologies necessary...just wanted to be sure I sent the right thing....good luck with the next project

 

[PolarCelsius]

The 5 AMP fuse on the MPEM keeps blowing and other threads have said the MPEM is basically toast, so I've ordered a good used OEM MPEM and hopefully that will help, not sure if that also has the ability to constantly crank the engine, maybe the relay assembly (not the solenoid) would cause this?

 

[PolarCelsius]

The 5 AMP fuse on the MPEM keeps blowing and other threads have said the MPEM is basically toast, so I've ordered a good used OEM MPEM and hopefully that will help, not sure if that also has the ability to constantly crank the engine, maybe the relay assembly (not the solenoid) would cause this?

Previous owner used a jump pack, right before he said it was fine and not blowing that fuse...

 

[POPPS]

Your selenoid sounds like it has a short, that 5 amp fuse, protects the selenoid I believe. Fix your selenoid issue first, before you replace the mpem.

 

[PolarCelsius]

Your selenoid sounds like it has a short, that 5 amp fuse, protects the selenoid I believe. Fix your selenoid issue first, before you replace the mpem.

I already replaced the solenoid and the issue didn't change, would it be affected by a short somewhere else?

 

[POPPS]

Now it sounds like the mpem? I believe the 5 amp fuse going is from an internal short in the mpem.

 

[PolarCelsius]

Now it sounds like the mpem? I believe the 5 amp fuse going is from an internal short in the mpem.

Yeah seems so at least from what I gathered, what I'm afraid of though is that the MPEM is not the only issue, and replacing that will only solve one issue and not the constant cranking once power is added to the system. No clue on how I would chase a ghost like that since it is seems like its not coming from the start button.

Makes me wonder why the previous owner would need to hook up a jump pack in the first place since the battery is charged; if its constantly cranking will it fire and run at the same time? would this destroy the starter? (the starter is already destroyed I know this) I wonder if it will even spark?

 

[JJinSC]

Ohm out your starter switch and wires tout. It could be shorted causing constant cranking.

 

[POPPS]

Yes, I am missing something. If the starter constantly cranks, then there is a short in the selenoid (or the start stop switch is shorted, extremely rare), and once again, from a thread a long time ago, (and double check it in the wiring diagram), that, (or) another 5 amp fuse protects the selenoid. ( I apologize for not recalling how many 5 amp fuses are up front ). Rule out the selenoid, then if that 5 amp keeps blowing, you know it is the mpem.

 

[PolarCelsius]

Yes, I am missing something. If the starter constantly cranks, then there is a short in the selenoid (or the start stop switch is shorted, extremely rare), and once again, from a thread a long time ago, (and double check it in the wiring diagram), that, (or) another 5 amp fuse protects the selenoid. ( I apologize for not recalling how many 5 amp fuses are up front ). Rule out the selenoid, then if that 5 amp keeps blowing, you know it is the mpem.

I just replaced the entire starter switch and wires (up until its first connector at least) The solenoid is new and I have another on hand, the new MPEM is on its way, battery is charged, new starter is going in soon (just got the old one out) I hope this will solve its issues, I just dont want to hook everything up and have it immediately start cranking as soon as the battery is connected or the power button hit or the key button pressed, because then i'll kind of be out of ideas

 

[PolarCelsius]

Also I noticed after taking off the exhaust manifold there is a pool of oil inside the short "L" ish shaped portion of the manifold connecting directly to the exhaust ports of the block... when turning the engine over by hand without the spark plugs on the compression strokes it gets a little difficult to turn them over, like there's some fluid pressure? Is this okay? the engine is by no means seized and might even have outstanding compression, but I'm not sure there should be THAT much oil build up there. There is also a LOT of oil at the bottom of the bilge, but as far as I can see no disconnected hoses

 

[POPPS]

Another crazy notion, are the cables in the electrical box properly connected?,,for the starter to instantly crank, and you have a new selenoid, and ruling out a short in the start stop switch( maybe it is stuck in the closed/on position).
I am thinking, that the positive of the battery, is somehow connected to the positive of the cable that goes to the
Starter...on the plus side of the selenoid? Okay, pull out the rear electrical box, disconnect the left side of the selenoid that goes to the starter, and connect your battery ( Positive side, ) , there shud be no voltage going to the starter. The selenoid connects the positive side of the battery to the positive terminal at the rear of the starter. Work backwards from there, and solve this part of your diagnosis at least.

 

[PolarCelsius]

I installed the new starter and it cranks over by shorting the solenoid terminals, however with the new MPEM installed the dash does not light up upon pressing the new start button or key button, I expected this as this new MPEM looks different than the one that came in the ski, I matched up the wires as best I could but was left with a lone yellow/red stripe connector on the MPEM

also the cylinders were flooded with oil (yes, oil) so I've been cranking and blasting that out

 

[PolarCelsius]

I believe you have to reprogram your key now to the new mpem ?

its a Pre-DESS model I believe, there is no magnet in the key, there is just a button that gets held down with the "key" to keep it powered on

 

[noviceskier]

where did you buy the used oem mpem?

 

[PolarCelsius]

where did you buy the used oem mpem?

From eBay user extrememoto
states it fits a 1995 XP

 

[POPPS]

Theoretically, the mpem ( with a dess post) , allows voltage to to go through the start stop button and then to the positive side of the selenoid through the yellow / red wire. If you disconnect the start stop switch, do you have the same issue. The key should connect the white signal wire to the coil to allow the motor to run, and it should allow the start stop switch to send voltage to the selenoid to power the starter.

 

[PolarCelsius]

So i've found my wiring diagram, apparently the white/grey wire goes to nothing? while the yellow/red goes to...yellow red. face palm. So now my MPEM is wired correctly, still no activity though from pressing the keypost or the start button, but will turn over by shorting the solenoid (yay)

Maybe my solenoid is bad? I'll toss in another known good one to see if that changes the outcome; yes the battery is charged, yes the terminals are clean and secure, yes there are no lose connections (as far as I know)

 

[POPPS]

Oil in the cylinders is not a good sign, usually it means your inner crank seals are gone, and that usually leads to a new crank, unless you have a shop that can take the crank apart and install new ones at a cost less than that of a rebuilt, used, or new one.

 

[PolarCelsius]

Oil in the cylinders is not a good sign, usually it means your inner crank seals are gone, and that usually leads to a new crank, unless you have a shop that can take the crank apart and install new ones at a cost less than that of a rebuilt, used, or new one.

Well thats no good; at that point I would probably be better off with buying one of those re-manufactured engines from SBT, at this time they're $795

Is there any possibility that the oil has another explanation that isnt so unfortunate? Or that the ski could still function?

Also the new solenoid did not solve the no power issue. It's just quiet, no clicking or lights or anything; but it cranks over by shorting, and all of the connections inside the electrical box are solid, is there somewhere else I should be looking? up front inside the hull by the gas tank I can see that the wires are still connected to the post and the start/stop button connectors are in place.

 

[PolarCelsius]

Well thats no good; at that point I would probably be better off with buying one of those re-manufactured engines from SBT, at this time they're $795

Is there any possibility that the oil has another explanation that isnt so unfortunate? Or that the ski could still function?

Also the new solenoid did not solve the no power issue. It's just quiet, no clicking or lights or anything; but it cranks over by shorting, and all of the connections inside the electrical box are solid, is there somewhere else I should be looking? up front inside the hull by the gas tank I can see that the wires are still connected to the post and the start/stop button connectors are in place.

After some quick research I may be lucky enough to be able to utilize a 1/2" ball valve installed on the incoming oil line that attaches under the carbs to toggle on and off with use, and also an oil additive called 'No Leak' that can help prevent the seeping past the seals. I want to try to get a little use out of this engine before I exchange it for a new one, this was just a $400 fixer-upper.

My main goal right now is to get it to turn on and crank with the start button, then worry about ignition and performance

 

[POPPS]

Installing the ball valve is a common repair, that works. I would repair the oil problem first, so that oil is not leaking into your cylinders while you are trying to solve your electrical issues. Definitely work backwards ( follow the voltage)
from the positive side of the selenoid, into your electrical box.