2010 Seadoo GTX 155 driveshaft removal / replace

[dogfish]

Hello everyone. Another new person to the forum. I have read through the very thorough steps and images posted by CoastieJoe for removing the pump and iBS system for greasing the impeller drive. Would anyone be willing to direct me to any previous forum discussions concerning repairing stripped spline drive at the impeller? At this stage I am very much hoping this is the issue and not PTO, as the workshop I currently have it at, alludes to it being the spline at the impeller end. I have the jetski in the Seadoo repairers at the moment and hoping they can get it to the stage of full disassembly (including oil drain hopefully) for me to be able to install non-genuine, rated as meeting or exceeding OEM specs, parts etc and saving some money on parts costs and labour. They have pulled out the pump and have managed to undo the impeller.

I am led to believe that the 2010 155 driveshaft was flawed and that Seadoo have also returned to using their previous design. The machine, while 8 years old has done under 100 hrs, with the 50 hourly done 20 months ago. Essentially a salt water life, but washed and flushed after use. I am a second owner. Anyone willing to throw me a bone with some tricks for young players, direct me to previous discussions - or just advising to leave it to the workshop and pay the bill,...would be appreciated.

I have the downloaded repair manual and while I am confident of my mechanical skills, I lack all of the specialist tools at this stage; plus have never ventured into this prior.

Regards;

PS. Symptoms leading to this conclusion was loss of drive power on the water, with a metal squeal, almost grinding noise coming from below the deck. Out of the water and during the flush, the shaft and impeller spun as one.

 

[Rikky001]

Hi,

Any reputable shop can tear out an impeller shaft within 30 minutes.
Best is to upgrade to the 2011 shaft, easy update.
Most importantly, and sometimes "forgotten" is a good alignment of the engine when you replace the drive shaft. Only a perfect alignment will solve your problem. It is a very simple process if you have the proper tools. SBT is not too expensive and works fine.
All problems with stripped splines I have seen (+20) were badly out of alignment. After alignment and a new shaft they never come back, other to do other maintenance and drink beer.

 

[mkov608]

Hello everyone. Another new person to the forum. I have read through the very thorough steps and images posted by CoastieJoe for removing the pump and iBS system for greasing the impeller drive. Would anyone be willing to direct me to any previous forum discussions concerning repairing stripped spline drive at the impeller? At this stage I am very much hoping this is the issue and not PTO, as the workshop I currently have it at, alludes to it being the spline at the impeller end. I have the jetski in the Seadoo repairers at the moment and hoping they can get it to the stage of full disassembly (including oil drain hopefully) for me to be able to install non-genuine, rated as meeting or exceeding OEM specs, parts etc and saving some money on parts costs and labour. They have pulled out the pump and have managed to undo the impeller.

I am led to believe that the 2010 155 driveshaft was flawed and that Seadoo have also returned to using their previous design. The machine, while 8 years old has done under 100 hrs, with the 50 hourly done 20 months ago. Essentially a salt water life, but washed and flushed after use. I am a second owner. Anyone willing to throw me a bone with some tricks for young players, direct me to previous discussions - or just advising to leave it to the workshop and pay the bill,...would be appreciated.

I have the downloaded repair manual and while I am confident of my mechanical skills, I lack all of the specialist tools at this stage; plus have never ventured into this prior.

Regards;

PS. Symptoms leading to this conclusion was loss of drive power on the water, with a metal squeal, almost grinding noise coming from below the deck. Out of the water and during the flush, the shaft and impeller spun as one.

Hey Dogfish! From past posts I have seen damage to driveshaft/impeller splines caused by a lack of maintenance. In highly corrosive environments, this mechanical joint can deteriorate and fail over time. The only recourse in this situation is to replace the components that are damaged. Rikky is spot on ... misalignment can tear up this joint as well, so his advice is excellent!

If you are confident with your mechanical skills, go through the repair procedure. Each step that requires a special tool will have the tool part number. Run a search for those part numbers on Ebay; that's how I purchased mine. They will save you a lot of money because if you intend to keep this ski, this isn't the only time you'll use them.

For example, the maintenance manual recommends a annual inspection by removing the pump cone to check for water intrusion. I'm rebuilding one of my pumps now because the front seal failed and water got in the pump. It wasn't bad, but the damage (pitting corrosion) on the pump bearing races was done. In rare cases, I have read posts where a lot of water got in the pump and then the ski was stored in sub-zero temperatures. That cause the pump to crack. Bottom line, a few minute inspection can save you a lot of money!

 

[dogfish]

Thank you Gents for your replies and very helpful guidance. Grabbing all of the required tools from one location has proven surprisingly difficult, looking from Australia, even through eBay. No one seller generally displays more than one part of the 4 that seem to make it up. Swaying back toward leaving it with the authorised repairer and copping the (much) higher costs for the 'genuine' parts. The time I would take to complete it all, particularly if alignment is out, is influencing my thoughts. I will ask though for them to check alignment and ensure they are acquiring the later shaft. It was the alignment component that troubled me partly for the expense of acquiring the tooling but also then going through the process acquiring shims etc if it did require adjusting. While the workshop manual appears easy to follow, with good diagrams, I am figuring if it is checked and done once correctly, I can focus thereafter on future pump work maintenance in the first instance.

 

[mkov608]

Understand, I ended up getting pump rebuild tools from multiple Ebay sources. So you can probably handle the pump rebuilds yourself and let the shop handle the alignment.

Whatever you do, if the dealer is going to replace parts or if they tell you there is a problem ... two things.

1. Ask them to show you the problem so you have a clear understanding.

2. If they replace parts, tell them you want the old parts.

 

[dogfish]

Thank you. I will do. I have let this one go to the dealer and have asked assurance that they will do the alignment check; to which they responded it is done each time for shaft replacement. I did mean to ask for the old parts so will follow that up. I have a much clearer picture of what is required, particularly with respect to tooling. It became a little confusing WRT the alignment tools until I realised I needed both the 4-tec alignment kit, which had the shaft adaptor and alignment shaft; and to grab the thru hull adaptor and GTX alignment plate. I will know for next time - if there ever is. It will be something else significant next time, for sure.

While work in the small confines of a jet ski compartment may not be as straight forward as it sounds, I do rate the workshop manual for clarity of instructions and use of pictures to clarify the more detailed steps.
If anyone out there would like to do a U-tube of an IBS seadoo shaft change and alignment, I think it would be a winner; it seems to be one area that is lacking for post 2009 Seadoo. 3ft deep demonstrated on a 2012 215 GTR, which was great to watch, but they raced past the C clip removal; in addition a slight difference in setup to the 155 GTX, which surprised me - but then realised it is perhaps a different hull design to the S3 hull. Great demo for actual shaft alignment though and potential troubles with engine mount bolts!

I will start gathering some tools over time for the future, now I have no time pressures - and have become more familiar with all of the processes, initially with the next annual service in mind. Appreciate your time, and thank you again.

 

[Rikky001]

Yes, good to follow up the alignment check with the dealer, some of them talk a lot but don't do the things they say. (sorry for the honest dealers) I was getting fed up with this and started doing my own repairs, I am not bad I guess as I take care of about 30 jet ski's now in addition to my normal yachts service business.

Best investment was a full alignment kit and a Seadoopro, this is needed to take care of your own ski and you quickly make friends as you can rent the tools between them, pay back is quickly achieved.

Here it is winter time so things are perfect to plan - and do the repairs. Maybe different with you as you want to go quickly back in the water.

Once the shaft is out the rest is easy. When your Seadoo is running on the sea you might face some challenges in removing the C clip. No worries, don't waste time with fizzling with the rubber boot to get acces to the stupid clip. Just cut the boot and acces is so much easy to get the big tools out. The rubber boot is cheap and better to replace it together with a new carbon seal so you know the drive line will be nothing to worry about.

Just get the engine oil out or trim your trailer so the PTO is up than the oil can remain inside, otherwise it will be a mess.

 

[dogfish]

The pressure of Summer being 'here and now' has certainly influenced my decision and in the end, to de-risk this time round. Not getting the tools now and easily offsetting against the cost of labour and genuine parts may become a long time regret - time will tell. I had thought about buying and then reselling. Hire option and keeping hold, sounds better. The cost of the repair is what has opened my eyes to alternatives and realising the wealth of knowledge willing to be shared here. I will explore seadoo pro option - and maybe make some friends along the way. From what I am reading, a must have too avoid dealer scheduled servicing to allow resets.

I had not thought about just cutting the boot away to take the pressure of the floating ring. That is a gem to store away. Makes so much sense!!

Thanks Rikky.

A further question, if I may, concerns sand that has started to appear inside the hull. On departure from shore, I have stirred up the water and put sand through the pump on more than one occasion. It is not a large amount by any means, but I just don't recall having any in the past?

 

[Rikky001]

Sand in the hull, most probably came in from your leaking drive shaft seal
All expensive lessons, just shut the ski off before beaching and don't start it before you have a meter water on it, saves you trouble.

I check and take out the drive shaft every season, takes half a day the first time but now it is done in 2 hours including a few beers in between. Just normal maintenance routine, check of the pump and drive line. I start with the alignement check first but so far this is always been good after I upgraded to 2011 drive shaft.
If the alignment is good your seal will wear evenly, I still replace it every season as it is cheap insurance.

Enjoy the ski.

 

[dogfish]

Another great tip!!. By the drive shaft seal, do you mean the carbon seal and bellows etc?

 

[Rikky001]

Correct, sorry for not being clear first time.

 

[dogfish]

Just appreciating your advice, thank you.

 

[dogfish]

I have now taken back my jetski and decided to do the repair myself. Alignment check of the driveshaft shows that the engine is offset to the starboard side by about 3mm ( approx 1/8" inch). The shaft will slot into the PTO adaptor but it is tight.
Firstly can I get away with this?
Secondly, in trying to undo the mount screws, I have found them immoveable and feel I am on the brink of stripping out the hex socket or hex key. I have started to remove the mounting bracket bolts in order to get the whole mount out to remove the mount screws. Again there is always one bolt that is difficult or impossible to get to.
Any clues for getting the mount screws to move?
Do I need to remove the engine and get this sorted, or; going back to the first question, is the offset close enough to do the job?

Regards again;

Rob

 

[Rikky001]

The bolts are painful most of the time. Usually they break off or strip. You can gently heat the bolts with a torch, use a small flame to not melt anything. You just need to heat the bolt so it melts the loctite. Or you grind the head off, no easy ways...

How do you know the offset is 3mm, what did you use as reference?

 

[dogfish]

The 3mm was an estimate on my behalf looking and comparing with thickness of the alignment shaft and adaptor lip. As it turns out, I went to attempt to push the alignment shaft into the adaptor this morning and it wouldn't oblige. So that helped me decide that an adjustment was definitely in order. I have now removed the engine, which has given much easier access to all of the bolts. All have come out less one which has had the hex stripped. I will try the torch and vice grips tomorrow before trying heavier tactics. Thanks for the advice.
Not having done the alignment previously, I noticed the large holes for the mount screws to allow it to be moved around a little. So I am guessing if the shim heights are right, the rest is achieved by attempting to gently shuffle the engine to either side a little. Any hints here would be appreciated as well .

In many respects, while a relatively big task, it has also allowed me to address the corrosion on the PTO cover and the mounts. While the end product may be a little agricultural, I am going to wire brush the housing, to then prime and repaint. Lots of salt water over the years has splashed onto the PTO housing and lifted the majority of the paint. It will then receive a liberal coating of lanolin, unless you know of a more resilient product? I was considering fish oil, but the flash point may be a little low.

 

[Rikky001]

Agree, taking out the engine is much more easy.

Best is to put grease on the alignment shaft where it enters the adapter piece, if you pull back the alignment shaft wou will see where the grease is gone so you adjust the engine accordingly. You can push the engine a bit around, we are talking millimeters only.

Trick is not to turn the alignment shaft when you pull back, just make a vertical/ horizontal line in the centre so you keep a good reference. No rocket science involved but if you have the proper alignment tools and spend some time you can get it perfect.

I did the same on my ski, cleaning and painting the bottom plates and the PTO housing. Just don't use a steel wire brush as you will create heavy corrosion, use a bronze wire brush instead. It is difficult to get the paint to last but I am happy if it last a year. I use anti corrosion preservation spray, not the gun spray but the more sticky one, this works fine for me.

 

[dogfish]

Still at the stage of cleaning the lifting paint and removing the white powder corrosion. No luck with locating bronze brush, but using rotary plastic abrasive brushes and a screw driver to remove flaking paint and to dig out the corrosion from crevices. I intend to pressure pack can spray with etching primer and then epoxy enamel. Once dry, I will heavily spray some preservative over it all to hopefully cover the parts I don't spray so well

So, while I am not going to remove the PTO housing, I am considering removing the water pump to get behind it better. My concern and query is that I will need to remove the oetiker clamps to take some of the hoses off. In your experience, is it ok to replace these with threaded (norma screw bands) hose clamps, or do I need to use Oetiker clamps again. Any tricks for young players for removing and installing the water pump?

Thanks Rikky001 too, for the 'heating the screw' advice. It worked a treat. I am curious why BRP use such a strong thread locker that needs to be overcome. It makes the task of shaft alignment an extra level of difficult. I will replace the screws, but considering removing their thread locking material and using loctite 243 (mid strength blue) - unless the new screws are no where as difficult as originals to remove again??

Will also use your grease tip for the alignment shaft.....slowly getting there.

 

[Rikky001]

Seems you have a good plan!

The Oetiker clamps are good things but if you don't have them, try to find the good quality hose clamps.
There is no trick in removing the water pump, just a lot of screws. Keep the oil cooler and cooling pump together, it comes of as a set. Once you remove the 4 screws on the oil cooler it comes of, there are 2 O-rings. When you install the oil cooler again, ensure the O rings are seated properly.

The strong loctite is in place to keep everything together. These bottom plates normally never need to be removed. When you put the inserts back, use the Six10 epoxy from West, or similar. I use Watertite from International. Torque them down to 25 Nm and ensure they are seated till the end.

If you replace the screws, just keep them original. It will be no problem if you need to take them out next time.

Good luck with the alignment.

 

[dogfish]

Thanks again. Removing the oil cooler wasn't part of my plan, but possibly a better way forward than separating the hoses. Just curious about what you mean by inserts?

 

[Rikky001]

Thanks again. Removing the oil cooler wasn't part of my plan, but possibly a better way forward than separating the hoses. Just curious about what you mean by inserts?

The inserts refer to the hull inserts. The engine support plates are bolted to these hull inserts.

 

[ski-d00]

There is only one oetiker clamp that has to be removed and that is the top hose that attaches to the head. The water pump and oil cooler will come out together as a unit. Or, you can just move the water pump around(lots of flexibility with the long hoses) while cleaning and you won't have to remove the oil cooler at all. The ride plate cooler/radiator hoses attach with screw clamps already. It is fine to use good quality stainless screw clamps anywhere an oetiker clamp is used. They only use these from the factory because they are cheaper and faster to install on a production line.

Oetiker clamps can be reused if you are careful removing them. With a small screwdriver, you can open up the clamp area by prying it back and forth until it opens enough to loosen it to remove the hose. Then the clamp can be removed and using needle nose pliers reshaped to the original open shape. Only takes a minute.

 

[Rikky001]

Disagree with your comment about Oetiker clamps. Yes, they are quickly installed but most important they provide constant uniform circumferential pressure, the ordinary screw clamps don't do this.
Where reliable connections to be made is where Oetiker clamps are used.

USCG or Class will make a remark if you use a screw clamp on your fuel system on a boat, if you use an Oetiker clamp it will be fine as they are considered reliable and safe. Not that relevant for a PWC, just as example.

"if good quality stainless steel screw clamps are used",reminds me on a guy with a sunken PWC when his corroded screw clamp popped... Not all stainless steel screw clamps are good quality but as is in most cases you get what you pay for.

 

[dogfish]

Hey Ski-d00. The way you suggested WRT leaving the oil cooler on is how I proceeded and saved opening the oil system. There was plenty of room to do what I needed by removing the water pump and keeping hoses attached. I was a little more careful with the engine top hose clamp and possibly could reuse, but will grab a normal hose clamp to replace. It is comforting to read that the oetiker were used for cost and efficiency and that the screw clamps are just as effective.

For Rikky; Inserts do not appear to have moved and haven't touched them - or you may be referring to the bolts?? - which I have removed. I have taken the bottom plates out to clean up and repaint as well.

Applied the primer today and top coat tomorrow. I will start on cleaning the attachments while waiting for the next engine mount screws and water pump gasket. I had considered re-using the gasket, but there was evidence of very small leakage, and a new one should have a little more flexibility about it.
Thanks gents for all of your advice and guidance.

 

[dogfish]

Disagree with your comment about Oetiker clamps. Yes, they are quickly installed but most important they provide constant uniform circumferential pressure, the ordinary screw clamps don't do this.
Where reliable connections to be made is where Oetiker clamps are used.

USCG or Class will make a remark if you use a screw clamp on your fuel system on a boat, if you use an Oetiker clamp it will be fine as they are considered reliable and safe. Not that relevant for a PWC, just as example.

"if good quality stainless steel screw clamps are used",reminds me on a guy with a sunken PWC when his corroded screw clamp popped... Not all stainless steel screw clamps are good quality but as is in most cases you get what you pay for.

Nice counter, thank you. I have become considerably more informed about clamps and the consideration of operating environment. Having previously only being involved repairing land vehicles, where an oetiker is rarely, if ever seen, this is good insight!!

 

[Rikky001]

Hey Ski-d00. The way you suggested WRT leaving the oil cooler on is how I proceeded and saved opening the oil system. There was plenty of room to do what I needed by removing the water pump and keeping hoses attached. I was a little more careful with the engine top hose clamp and possibly could reuse, but will grab a normal hose clamp to replace. It is comforting to read that the oetiker were used for cost and efficiency and that the screw clamps are just as effective.

For Rikky; Inserts do not appear to have moved and haven't touched them - or you may be referring to the bolts?? - which I have removed. I have taken the bottom plates out to clean up and repaint as well.

Applied the primer today and top coat tomorrow. I will start on cleaning the attachments while waiting for the next engine mount screws and water pump gasket. I had considered re-using the gasket, but there was evidence of very small leakage, and a new one should have a little more flexibility about it.
Thanks gents for all of your advice and guidance.

My excuses I have misunderstood that you had to take out the insert due to a sheared bolt in it. Even better, less to worry

Good luck, for sure it will come along well.