2003 Sea Doo Challenger - Not moving fast in water

[turbosl2]

Just purchased this boat yesterday at a cheap price.

At this point its all hearsay since its winter here and the company i purchased from said they were told the boat doesn't move fast through the water, it does move and the previous owner was able to get it back to the dock...yet it runs fine on trailer. This leads me to believe its in the jet pump but i am not sure if the gearing has failed and its slipping, or if the engine is really the cause under load. I was told (have not verified yet because i have not seen the boat in person) that the impeller spins fine with the engine running. The technician said all seems well on the trailer but he only knows the boats performance from what the previous owner told him and noway to verify without putting in the water...which we cant do since its winter and water is frozen. This is why i was hoping to learn more about the drive system and what could be the issue based on the information i know.

I am not sure how the boat could move slow and impeller be tight and only go a few MPH. To much skepticism and unknowns but you guys at least are giving me things to look for.

Is their gear oil in those right angle drives that needs to be changed? Where are parts available? I dont see the sea doo parts diagrams with anything listed for propulsion or engine. Even if i needed an engine part! Is there a place that sells parts and has a parts diagram for a 2003 with a Merc?

 

[Tim75]

Yes, there is oil in the gear box. 2 plugs visible from under the boat, looking up at the intake grate. There is also oil in the stator housing. There are multiple threads here on how to change both oils. Obviously, when you drain the gear oil, look for chips and gear pieces. Rare.

There is another problem common to jet boats-- debris in the pump system. From a plastic bag to small block of wood to rope around the shaft. These can all cause the problem you describe. Cheap to fix.

I have not had a problem finding parts, but some are very expensive. After all, the engine is the same as any merc 2.5 L outboard powerhead. Except for the crankshaft lower spline for some reason.

 

[turbosl2]

Yes, there is oil in the gear box. 2 plugs visible from under the boat, looking up at the intake grate. There is also oil in the stator housing. There are multiple threads here on how to change both oils. Obviously, when you drain the gear oil, look for chips and gear pieces. Rare.

There is another problem common to jet boats-- debris in the pump system. From a plastic bag to small block of wood to rope around the shaft. These can all cause the problem you describe. Cheap to fix.

I have not had a problem finding parts, but some are very expensive. After all, the engine is the same as any merc 2.5 L outboard powerhead. Except for the crankshaft lower spline for some reason.

Awesome, I hope that’s it. Just got the boat home. I have no manuals so I am not sure how to even start it out of the water or winterize it. I paid 2750 so idk maybe it needs major work. I see a flush hookup under the engine compartment. Do I hook a hose here to run it on the trailer? Unfortunately the place had not one manual!

 

[turbosl2]

So I need some help here because something seems odd. The engine says 210hp and it looks carbureted to me. I don’t see any alternator and it says 2001 on the tag. I assume someone swapped it to a 01 carb? Or maybe the boat is an 01 and the company messed up. Where can I find the serial number for the jet drive as well. I also don’t see any external fuel filter on this thing. I am looking for service manuals but I don’t even know what I have. Lol

 

[Tim75]

After seeing the pix, yes it's carbs.
The water connection under the engine hatch is for flushing. However-- use caution. If you don't have A LOT of flow, only run for less than a minute. Don't use a cheapie 1/2 hose.

Alternator is under the flywheel.

EFI engines have 3 fuel pumps. Carb engines have 2. There were at least 3 different engines in this boat.

Support the forum- get your manuals here.

 

[turbosl2]

Thanks for the info. So I assume someone swapped the engine. What are the major failures on these. I purchased a fuel pump rebuild kit, plugs, oil for stator and jet. I hear a lot about some oil injection gear, is that something my carb model has and should I change it? I didn’t see any fuel filters on this

 

[turbosl2]

Compression is 105 on all with throttle closed, forgot to tell the wife to kick it WOT. Wear ring not looking so hot, very pourus

 

[Tim75]

I would NOT assume someone swapped the engine. There would be a lot of extra wires left over from the EFI system.

Compression: 105 is low, but it should be checked at WOT. It will make a significant difference. Normal on the EFI engine is 135. The fact that they are the same is a good sign.

There are lots of threads here that cover mods to fix the wear ring if there is excessive gap between OD of impeller and ID of ring.

Looks like your boat sat in salt water for a while. You will need to check your zincs- there are 3, I think.

Since you need to remove the stator to change the stator oil, that will give you the chance to further inspect for debris.

The gear you speak of is the one that drives the oil injection pump. Lots of contoversy here- some keep the system intact. Some bypass it and run 50:1 premix. Usually, the gear is OK until the engine gets overheated from weeds or debris. This causes the oil pump shaft to bind and that strips the gear. The OEM gear was not great. There is a new design avail. but engine needs a teardown to replace it.

Fuel pump: What kit did you get? There are 2 pumps- both visible on port side on your last engine pic. Follow the fuel line from the tank. First thing you come to is a fuel filter, then the electric lift pump. Thump-thump when you turn the key.

 

[turbosl2]

I would NOT assume someone swapped the engine. There would be a lot of extra wires left over from the EFI system.

Compression: 105 is low, but it should be checked at WOT. It will make a significant difference. Normal on the EFI engine is 135. The fact that they are the same is a good sign.

There are lots of threads here that cover mods to fix the wear ring if there is excessive gap between OD of impeller and ID of ring.

Looks like your boat sat in salt water for a while. You will need to check your zincs- there are 3, I think.

Since you need to remove the stator to change the stator oil, that will give you the chance to further inspect for debris.

The gear you speak of is the one that drives the oil injection pump. Lots of contoversy here- some keep the system intact. Some bypass it and run 50:1 premix. Usually, the gear is OK until the engine gets overheated from weeds or debris. This causes the oil pump shaft to bind and that strips the gear. The OEM gear was not great. There is a new design avail. but engine needs a teardown to replace it.

Fuel pump: What kit did you get? There are 2 pumps- both visible on port side on your last engine pic. Follow the fuel line from the tank. First thing you come to is a fuel filter, then the electric lift pump. Thump-thump when you turn the key.

I am not worried about hte compression. It runs great and starts right up and most likely either my gauge reads low or the lower numbers are due to not being at WOT. Yes all the same is great sign.

I did check the zincs, the big one on the rear is still there but is def about half the size. I dont plan to ever leave this in the water, just a day trip thing so i may not even replace unless it falls off.

I dont see any debris in the system, the impellor looks great but the leading edge of the stator looks pretty banged up. I am very interested in how to replace the wear ring with something that is not $600 from Mercury! Do you have a link?

Is there anyway to check the oil injection system to see if its functioning (like a certain hose to pull and crank it over)? I dont ever want to run premix unless i HAVE TO. I like the boat to operate as intended and not reengineer it unless its broken. So my take is you cannot replace this gear without tearing the engine apart? Its not an external drive?

I bought the fuel pump diaphragm. I saw the little electric one on the side but it was $300 so i figure i wont purchase that unless i test it and its bad. I dont see a fuel filter for the life of me. Where should this be located (on the engine block or inline with the boat? I was expecting a large inline or screw on filter but nothing is apparent. Do you see it in my pictures above? I just want to be sure its not missing because i DEF want something in there and i dont trust people, maybe someone removed it. I do have a couple Mercrusier kits with a housing...etc that i use for my 32' carver i could put in (thats if its really missing).

I really appreciate the feedback and help

 

[Tim75]

Fuel filter is screwed into cubic electric pump on port side.

Oil pump drive gear is bolted around crank.

I have had to dremel the leading edges inside of stator to smooth flow. What is the gap at the top between impeller blade and wear ring? There are companies that can install a SS ring into wear ring for about $300. I fixed mine with fiberglass for about $10.

 

[turbosl2]

Fuel filter is screwed into cubic electric pump on port side.

Oil pump drive gear is bolted around crank.

I have had to dremel the leading edges inside of stator to smooth flow. What is the gap at the top between impeller blade and wear ring? There are companies that can install a SS ring into wear ring for about $300. I fixed mine with fiberglass for about $10.

I will check it tomorrow but it can’t be more than .020 if that. The stator looks bad but I will smooth that out. I will try the JB weld trick but I am not sure if that’s the issue. I ordered a new filter also for $15, it’s so small I missed it

 

[Tim75]

I will check it tomorrow but it can’t be more than .020 if that. The stator looks bad but I will smooth that out. I will try the JB weld trick but I am not sure if that’s the issue. I ordered a new filter also for $15, it’s so small I missed it

Testing the oil pump- it's in the manual. A gallon of pre-mix gas-oil to the fuel pick-up hose. Rig a container under the oil pump discharge hose. There is a spec on its delivery rate. I don't know the numbers. You will need to be in the water for this test, if I remember correctly. Best to look it up.

 

[turbosl2]

Thanks will do.
Pulled the stator and wear ring off today. Wear ring is very pitted but impellor looks like new. Stator has damage but I will Smooth it out with my dremmel. Had water mixed in with the green gear lub fluid because the seal was in crooked.

Driveshaft feels tight with minimal backlash in the right angle drive. No signs of scrapes on wear ring. Pulled the plugs and it feels nice. I have to drain the fluid but I can’t get the flat head drain plugs out.

Pretty banged up as you can see in the pics, I plan to smooth it out with JB weld and a dremmel for the wear ring and see how it does. Bushing looks good I’m stator so I will just change the seal

 

[Tim75]

Looking at your wear ring- further evidence boat sat in salt water. If the stator/impellor gap is like you say. a thin film of epoxy or JB weld to smooth the surface should be sufficient. Be aware of the large o-ring at one end of wear ring. There is a small o-ring that CARRIES COOLING WATER from the 5 holes you see. Make sure there are no blockages here.

If you are thinking of removing the impeller--
Don't try without the wear ring bolted in place. It supports the end of the shaft. Remove the grate, there are 2 flats on the shaft for a wrench. Do not use an impact wrench- gear damage will result. Nut is very tight- 150 ft-lbs. plus corrosion. If you damage or scratch the end of that shaft, you just made an oil leak-- oil out; water in.

Don't lose the little gaskets under the head of the 2 straight-slot screws.

 

[turbosl2]

Looking at your wear ring- further evidence boat sat in salt water. If the stator/impellor gap is like you say. a thin film of epoxy or JB weld to smooth the surface should be sufficient. Be aware of the large o-ring at one end of wear ring. There is a small o-ring that CARRIES COOLING WATER from the 5 holes you see. Make sure there are no blockages here.

If you are thinking of removing the impeller--
Don't try without the wear ring bolted in place. It supports the end of the shaft. Remove the grate, there are 2 flats on the shaft for a wrench. Do not use an impact wrench- gear damage will result. Nut is very tight- 150 ft-lbs. plus corrosion. If you damage or scratch the end of that shaft, you just made an oil leak-- oil out; water in.

Don't lose the little gaskets under the head of the 2 straight-slot screws.

I dont plan to remove the impeller at this point in time, but thanks for the info in case i do. I do agree that it was in salt water, most of the wear on the aluminum doesnt seem to be from debris, maybe a little but it looks like deterioration due to salt.

I am thinking this is still not the cause of boat slow to move in the water. Again its all hearsay from the person who traded it but maybe it was a simple as water in gas or dirty carbs. I will clean up the propulsion system, prob wont be 100% but i dont need to hit the top speed, just dont want to have a boat that cant move

 

[turbosl2]

How do you guys get those drain plugs out? The salt water didnt help.

 

[Tim75]

Which plugs?

 

[turbosl2]

Which plugs?

Never mind I did get them out with a impact hammer. The drains for the gearbox in the bottom. Two flatheads. Any idea why there are two? Where do I fill from. The fluid looks dirty and very thick, much diff fluid than the stator. Stator has green/blue gear oil but was much higher viscosity.

 

[Tim75]

The same oil is used in both stator and gears.
There are 2 holes because one is FILL and one is VENT. I can't remember which is which. You still have the 2 little gaskets?

You will need 2 quarts of Mercury (or Quicksilver) High Performance Gear Lube. NO SUBSTITUTES! Also a marine bottle pump. All from Wal-Mart. There is a link at the top of this section on how to do this. (There are threads here on how to do almost everything!)

Be careful how hard you strike these castings-- they are not the best.

The old gear oil--Is it just gooey or are there shine specs in it? Gooey is a small amount of water. Shiney specs are worn gears and bearings. Hopefully, there are no chunks.

When the engine is running, what is the RPM? Have you removed all the plugs after running? Are they uniformly wet? Are some dry? If any are completely dry, STOP RUNNING IT! If dry, it's because at least one carb is not passing gas AND OIL leading to destruction.

 

[turbosl2]

No filings in the oil. Not shinny at all. Just really thick and black, not like the blue green in the stator. All plugs are wet. I won’t be able to start it until I get the pump back together to report on rpm but it appears the engine runs great.

I have orderd the gear oil and pump. I will lookup where the fill is on the gearcase. I did notice the gaskets. They are still stuck in the case. It’s amazing on how different the fluids were. Maybe someone only changed the stator and not the gear-case.

Thanks for help so far.