2001 SeaDoo XP 947/951 Complete Engine Rebuild

[Dalakian]

Hello guys! I apologize in advance if I ask some basic questions, but I just got my jet ski as a gift from a friend and decided to do a complete rebuild of the engine. So far I've taken the engine out of the ski and it is sitting inside my house, waiting to be worked on. However, I have a few questions to those who know a lot about them:

-What is a good place to buy all the parts for it? I look on different websites but not sure which one can be trusted for quality
-What should I replace if I want my jet ski to last for a while and perform brand new again? Also, does anyone know a place where I can buy a complete set a gaskets, etc? Or maybe a complete top end/bottom end rebuild kit?
-Should I rebuild the bottom end of the engine or is it unnecessary?
-Should I mess with the exhaust or leave it alone?

Does anyone have any suggestions/tips that they can give me? And what is a good place to re-surface my cylinders? Should I bore the cylinders?

Basically, any advice helps.

Thanks much! Oh, and here are some pictures, too!

 

[donkey]

did it run before you took the engine out?
does it have grey fuel lines?if so,change them all and clean the fuel selector,change filter.
cleaned carbs?(inside,little filters)
have you looked at the impeller and wear ring?
sbt for the engine.
most of the other stuff you can find at the top of this page.oem parts

 

[Dalakian]

Well, it was running fine last summer, though it would stall every now and then and had rough time starting (would turn over 100 times but would not ignite) and this summer it would start rough + would not go past 10mph so I've decided to rebuild the whole thing from ground up.

That being said, I've already bought new fuel lines for it (regular black lines from auto-zone). Surprisingly, I only found the nasty green goo at the end of only one of the grey lines, the rest were very clean + my fuel selector and my carbs are clean also. But I've decided to replace them anyways. I don't know how many hours are on the jet ski, but from the looks of it, the engine has never been rebuilt in the past. All the screws and nuts still have the factory paint on them.

Carbs is my next project in line. I'm about to rebuild the whole thing BUT I broke off the nipple on one of the carbs (pictured below) and I don't know what to do now. Is it possible to weld it back on somehow or do I have to buy a whole new lid? (it's $100 online, holy!)

I have not looked at the impeller and the wear ring yet, because right now I'm only focused on the engine part of the jet ski.

Also, should I "upgrade" any of the stock engine parts with better ones? And where should I re-surface everything at? (head-wise)

Thanks

 

[Dr Honda]

Before you rip that engine apart... check the compression. Your running issues may not have anything to do with the engine being bad. it could be carbs, or a broken reed valve.

If you don't find the source if the issue... then you drop a bunch of $$$ into a rebuild, and then it still won't run when you get it back together.

 

[Dalakian]

Thanks, Dr Honda. I'm going to do a compression test today, but my logic behind rebuilding the top end of the engine is because I've heard too many horror stories about 951 requiring to be rebuilt every 200 hours or else it will lead to much more serious problems down the road and I have no idea how many hours the ski has on it right now.

Can I pop off the cylinder head to look at their condition without having to replace the gasket? And I will look into the reed valves today. Thanks!

 

[El Toro 33809]

Listen to what Dr. Honda has to say. He knows his stuff. The compression check is the place to start. Will you be able to do that with the engine pulled?

If you pull the heads, you should replace the gasket. SBT sells the full gasket kits, as well as many of your other rebuild parts.

http://www.shopsbt.com/sea-2001-dxp/48-109.html

Another member that is very good with the 951 engine is SabrToothSqrl. Look to him for advice with your Seadoo.

 

[Spimothy Leary]

no harm in tearing it down, if you were thinking that to begin with and everything checks out, your out less than $100 in gaskets & misc... your about to run out of summer up there so get started !
you can probably find that carb part from about 30 guys that have misc 951 parts laying around, I might have one myself in my carb bucket and it would be cheap. (move a decimal over on the $100.00 price )

 

[Dalakian]

I agree that the engine might not need to be rebuilt as of yet, but my logic is that I don't know just how many hours are on this thing and since I've pulled it out anyways, I might as well rebuild the top end to have "0" hours on it. Problem is, I don't know if I should replace anything in the bottom end of the engine while I'm at it. So far my plan is to send it to http://www.fullboreonline.com/ and have it re-bored for $349 + it will come with a complete set of gaskets + new pistons, etc. Has anyone worked with those guys in the past? Any other suggestions?

I'm planning on keeping this jet ski for many years to come and want it to last. As far as I know, the poor thing has been neglected by the previous owner so I would rather not take my chances.

I should be able to perform a compression test if I plug in 12v DC to the starter. We'll see.

Also, how important it is to re-apply the loctite on all the bolts as it directs in the manual? I hate working with that stuff 'cause it's always a pain to unbolt anything the next time. Though it does what it promises to do.

Spimothy Leary,
The summer in Seattle has not even started yet lol. It usually begins in the end of July Please shoot me a pm if you do locate the right part for my carb, I would really appreciate it! Thanks

 

[ocod]

x2 on Saber know his stuff.

If you decide to do rebuild either buy OEM pistons or prox.
You can send your cylinders the fullboreonline.com and he returns them with everything you need for top end including gaskets ready to bolt on.

If you need crank rebuilt then you need press to do it yourself.
I would spend a little more to have it done with OEM parts vs lesser quality part in core replacement.

At that point you have a few options.
SBT is a core replacement with 2 yr no fault and will get you in the water faster.

Or other choice is have your engine rebuilt with Fullbore or upcoming SES witch Saber has 2 engines from him and one or two other member.

 

[Dalakian]

ocod,

So far I'm thinking that I'm going to send the cylinders in to the fullbore and call it good, because the price seems to be fair. However, how can I check if I do need to have my crank rebuilt? To be honest, I don't think that I need to have my engine rebuilt to start with, but I want to do it anyways to have a "new" engine in my ski.

Keep in mind that I do not want to spend $1,100 on a fully rebuilt engine if I can get it done myself for $350 at fullbore.

Would "SES" be better than fullbore? I will shoot Saber a pm if I find him. Thanks!

 

[Spimothy Leary]

fullbore, sbt, ses not sure what order i'd rank them, i've used sbt exclusively, but they are less then 2 hours from my house, easy decision, IMO sbt is ok, all have run, no returns,, my left brain says pick between fullbore and sbt and option 3 would be a piston kit and a trip to your local machine shop.

or just a light hone at a machine shop might be cool, but at this point you don't really know

oh and ps, sorry, i thought it was spokane, and i immediately thought "brrrrr" and when projects like this start, they usually end up taking a month. anyway,, not important,,,

lets take a deep breath and step back, your thinking top end and you don't have a clue if you need one, although no harm in planning ahead

this should have been done b4 pulling the engine but...

thats a pretty clean engine, doesn't look neglected, and these engines are pretty well sealed do a comp, pop the raves, take a peek at the cyl's with a flashlight, listen to the crank, is it quiet, etc, don't be thinking top end until you actually need a top end, don't even think hone until you actually need a hone.

once you take the top end off and start poking around IMO you might as well tear it down completely and inspect the entire engine, but right now you might not need to , or maybe you'll at least feel comfortable enough to put it back in as is, run it for the summer, and do a complete tear down in the winter if you find that there are any concerns.

there is nothing wrong with a cleaned up engine, but really cleaning it up is actually very very time consuming, and cleaning up a perfectly running engine sometimes does more harm than good

summary:

if you run a comp and post good readings
if you pull the raves and the pistons look good and everything looks ok

then a top end makes no real sense, i'd only go that route if you decide to do a tear down, open her up and then decide if you need either:

nothing, just gaskets
a hone, or
a bore + piston kit, or
a top end exchange.

with that said, if your anal, and your thinking long term, and you like projects, then by all means dig in !

because really:

the whole problem with 951's is that dam crank, and its the hardest thing to get to on the engine (obviously) but when they blow, they blow in spectacular fashion, and generally take the cases with them, if it was a 787 i'd be more inclined to gamble than with a 951, where results of a crank failure usually end up with an invoice that has a comma in it

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

I'm sure others will agree; depending on the age of the engine + hours (in this case 11 years), a dealer can read your hours.

If the engine is out, spend the $1100 on a complete rebuild w/a 2 year no fault warranty. I just tossed an engine in my 02 XP from SES, and it holds 6,900 WOT. If you do the top end, you are on borrowed time for the bottom end... which means you get all the joys, fun, busted knuckles, scrapes, and stress of doing all this ALL OVER again...

I would have performed some troubleshooting with the engine still in the ski, such as a compression test, but that's up to you. You clearly got it out okay. Replace your 11 year old oil lines while your at it, and the oil filter. Also, for quicker out of the hole and a bit more top end check out the Solas Concord 15/20 impeller. Make sure to grease your center support bearing on this ski.

wow that engine looks clean, I'm surprised it doesn't work, did you check carbs, fuel, plugs, RAVEs, etc before pulling it?

Also clean your RAVEs.

 

[Dr Honda]

Thanks, Dr Honda. I'm going to do a compression test today, but my logic behind rebuilding the top end of the engine is because I've heard too many horror stories about 951 requiring to be rebuilt every 200 hours or else it will lead to much more serious problems down the road and I have no idea how many hours the ski has on it right now.

Can I pop off the cylinder head to look at their condition without having to replace the gasket? And I will look into the reed valves today. Thanks!

I'm not saying that a rebuild is a bad idea... but you still have to find the cause of the running issue.

When I raced SCORE desert series... I would do a top-end on my race bike about ever 5 or 6 races to avoid issues.


As far as your head gasket... no, it can't be reused. On the 951 engine... it's conventional "Crush" style, metal gasket. The 800 and smaller engines use O-rings, and can be opened, and closed at will.

 

[Dalakian]

Sabr,
Could you help me out with a link to that website? I've tried to find the SES engine swap but could not locate it, unfortunately.

Yes, the engine does look clean and it does work lol I just pulled it out to do some "heavy duty" cleaning while I'm at it. It was being held on by 3 bolts so I've figured might as well, you know.

Here are the problems that this jet ski has had in the past:

-Last summer it had hard time starting. I would have to hold the start button (with or without choke, with or without gas - didn't matter) for at least 30 seconds before it would actually fire up. Once fired up, it would sometimes die and would not start back up again and we would have to "boost" the battery (yeah, I know it's really bad, but we didn't know at the time).

-One time when out of the water, the jet ski just quit working. When we popped the battery cover off, the negative contact was melted off completely lol it was horrible.

Now, I should mention that while it was working last summer (aside from starting issues, etc) it was running just fine @6,000 and pulling really hard. Has always had oil in it and didn't have any other issues.

When a mechanic came over to de-winterize it (while still at my friend's place) he said that the jet ski was all fine and was working good. But when we tried to take it out in the water not too long ago, it had the same starting issues and would not accelerate past 10mph, guh!!

After which I've became the new proud owner of this beast and decided to do all the work on it myself. All of the above being said, I would rather not spend $1,200 on the engine swap even though it's probably much better than doing all the work myself. My funds are limited at the moment, sadly. But I would like to have a link to that place anyways in case I do decide to go with it.

Btw, I've read on the forum that I should install an inline fuel filter in addition to the stock one, however my stock fuel filter is actually broken (the housing doesn't hold the bowl, the thread is busted) so... questions is: can I just ignore the original fuel filter if I swap it with an inline one or should I just keep them both? It costs $20 for a used filter on ebay, ouch! Unless someone on here has one for sale.

Thanks again for all your help guys. I will keep you posted with pictures if I do take off the top end. Is the crankshaft really that un-reliable? Can I just replace the bearings on it to make it last longer? Again, I would rather not spend $1,200 on it but I do want to make it last.

 

[brock1]

fullbore is great they do good work but with it being almost august you wont get your stuff back from them till almost september....your choice but fullbore is SLOW BUT CHEAP ...SBT IS FAST BUT PRICY

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

the 951 should spin 6500-6900 WOT... so 'just fine' (your words) is 6k, which on my 02XP is about 50 MPH... which actually sucks as this ski can do 60-65.

http://www.seadooengineshop.com/

and yes, they rebuild the engine you send in, so expect 3-5 weeks turn around.

SBT just ships an engine, so it's faster.

I went with SES, off season, due to cost and speaking w/them on the phone. Been happy with the 3 engines I've sent them.

This hobby isn't cheap, but these 2 strokes are about the least expensive way to get on the water... the new ones push $15-16k... and there is no guarantee they won't need an engine in 2 or 3 years... or in this case.. 11.

Pulling the engine yourself saved you at least $500, and taught you lots. I would have removed that PTO cover before pulling it out, but hey it's out lol... You'll want to strip the engine down for any place you send it, removing a lot of the components that will just carry over to the 'new' engine.

I've had the joy of rebuilding a few of these only to have them fail within ONE tank, or 10 tanks. Now I get a warranty, peace of mind, and have working skis. The 951 from my experience is not a very tolerance forgiving engine, and takes a lot of special work to build properly...

 

[Dalakian]

Saber,
The max that I've ever pushed my 01XP was 60-62mph last summer.

Okay, you've convinced me to go with SES. I will come up with hard earned cash and ship it to them. Should I go with their "Premium" engine? They seem to recommend it better.

If I go ahead with SES, then I'm going to have a "brand new" (or even better, according to them) engine in my XP. On top of that I'm going to replace the oil + fuel filter, add a in-line fuel filter, replace all of the fuel lines and rebuild my carb. Only problem is that I broken off the tip of my carb while removing it and now need to buy a new part (pictured in the post above)

Am I missing anything? If I do all of the above, it should last me for many years if I maintain it correctly, right?

I will get to the wear ring, etc, later on, depending on how it will run once I re-assemble it. Maybe I will do it next summer. Believe it or not, but the summer is Seattle has not even started yet. It usually starts in August.

Should I replace any of the electrical stuff while I'm at it? I've heard that some cable rust through on the inside.

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

Stock prop 60-62 is about norm. Solas concord 15/20 will get you moving a hair faster, but also has great hole shot.

The premium is a 2 year no fault over a 1 year, your choice. I do 2 year on skis for me, 1 yr on skis I flip.

Try breaking the T nipple fitting on the damn carbs.. $100 also.

Other than the fuel lines, just check all fuses. Does the bildge pump work? How do the grounds in the electric box look?

Did you clean the raves yet? How are the air lines?

How's the water regulator?

When you get the engine, break it in right, and USE THE RIGHT OIL. The 951 Needs the right oil, or you will be doing this all over.

I personally run the SEA-DOO oil, you can buy online, or some people use others. Not getting into a debate. Just has to be the correct type.

 

[Dalakian]

Well, when it's time to replace my wear-ring and my impeller, I might go with Solas concord 15/20 but for now I will stick with my current one.

Fuses look good, grounds look okay, bilge pump seems to work okay, though I haven't actually tested it. I haven't done any research on the rear end of my XP yet. This is my first Jet Ski and so far I've been focusing on the engine.

SES will clean and trim my RAVEs when they do the rebuild and the air lines look okay on the outside. I may blow some compressed air through them though. I'm not sure how to rest the water regulator, honestly.

The previous owner topped off the oil container and I believe he bought it from a specialized watercraft shop so it should be good. I would hate to dump a container full of oil.

 

[Spimothy Leary]

Saber,
The max that I've ever pushed my 01XP was 60-62mph last summer.

Okay, you've convinced me to go with SES. I will come up with hard earned cash and ship it to them. Should I go with their "Premium" engine? They seem to recommend it better.

If I go ahead with SES, then I'm going to have a "brand new" (or even better, according to them) engine in my XP. On top of that I'm going to replace the oil + fuel filter, add a in-line fuel filter, replace all of the fuel lines and rebuild my carb. Only problem is that I broken off the tip of my carb while removing it and now need to buy a new part (pictured in the post above)

Am I missing anything? If I do all of the above, it should last me for many years if I maintain it correctly, right?

I will get to the wear ring, etc, later on, depending on how it will run once I re-assemble it. Maybe I will do it next summer. Believe it or not, but the summer is Seattle has not even started yet. It usually starts in August.

Should I replace any of the electrical stuff while I'm at it? I've heard that some cable rust through on the inside.

one thing i'll suggest... since this is just a guess, but sounds like your sending a good engine off for replacement, at great expense....

do a compression test.... if it passes the test

Option A) sell the dam thing !

(not the ski, the motor) to a guy locally that will buy it, and give you his core... use the core to send in for replacement .... or find a core for a couple hundred.

just a thought ! you'll save about $600

shit if you weren't on the other side of the country, i'd be putting together a core for you right now !

here's a copy/paste of parts prices from a listing from a reputable seller... your "good" parts are worth a ton of money ! And when your rebuilder sends them back, they will be worth exactly the same ...

Cases with all bolts & case plugs. $320

Crank $275

Balance Shaft $90

Reed cage with reeds $100 both

Front mag cover with stator & pick up & oil pump. $125

Flywheel with mag cup $80

Starter $100

Starter Bendix $65

Head $75

and that list above doesn't include good cyl's and pistons $300

now,, excuse my french for this last paragraph....

i'm all about tearing stuff down, i push people to do it all the time,
and I have absolutely no issues sending in a core for replacement,
but sending in what appears to be an engine full of good parts to me is just flushing money down the toilet like a turd in the morning.

Option B, ride the dam thing !

fk if that's your plan, (replace it) i'd say run a comp test, drop that dirty whore back in the ski and ride it like a rented mule, beat the living piss out of it.... let your crazy cousin ride it in the ocean, just abuse that thing....

and THEN if it blows up... send it in for a $1200 replacement with warranty.

why throw $1200 away because your engine might break some day.

Option C) spend $1200 replacing it this is absolutely the last resort IMO.

now if somewhere in this thread i missed that part where you said the engine is toast,,, then forget everything I just said.

carry on

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

I agree it might not be the engine that's the issue, but it is already out... not that you can't put it back in... live & learn

did you compression test it yet?

I usually send REALLY messed up engines to SES that need crank work, pistons, sleeves, rods, etc. Last one had a rod that crack / smacked in 1/2 and the crank bearing near it went, so I knew I didn't want to mess w/all that.

Well, if it's not the right oil, and you blow an engine then... what's that worth? just get the correct oil, and see if it matches what's in the tank now. If not, I wouldn't chance it, but it's your engine. If you get a warranty, yes that's covered, but who wants to spend 6 hrs ripping an engine out / back in? not to mention the down time... a week? two? three? 2 strokes NEED the right stuff, ask anyone here what happens with the wrong oil type in a 951...

 

[Dalakian]

Spimothy Leary,
I tend to favor option B the most, BUT when I called SES they told me that if my engine blows up, they will charge me $2,500 to have it rebuilt, instead of $1,200... I don't know if they were lying though.

Saber,
I have not ran the compression test yet, but I will do it either today or tomorrow, then if the compression turns out to be good, I will put the engine back in with new fuel lines and filters + rebuilt carb and hope that it all runs good.

Is it okay to start the engine for 30 seconds while out of the water in my back yard? And I will have to bleed everything out somehow before starting the engine, right? Good grief... what did I get myself into?? haha

Btw, has anyone ever tried welding the nipple back onto a carb before? (successfully?)

 

[Spimothy Leary]

oops i forgot about that carb part, i'll dig into my bucket tonight... sorry about that.

30 seconds, sure,, 15 even better

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

actually there is a hose hookup on the back near the jet pump that enables you to run the engine on land... allowing it to be water cooled on the trailer.

just be sure to follow the procedure in order for that.

 

[Dalakian]

Saber,
I was trying to find one but have failed. Could you show me a picture, if you don't mind? Or point to a thread? Other Jet Skies have flush valves on the back, but this one does not...

And Leary,
Thanks, I appreciate it.