2001 GTX DI No Compression!

[jhanratt]

I am seeking your advice before I dig into my newly acquired winter project.

Today I bought a 2001 Seadoo GTX DI 947cc Direct Injection Seadoo from it's original owner. I bought it cheap after it lost compression.

The previous owner described that it never really ran right this year. He assumed dirty fuel injectors and ran injector cleaner in the tank. It died on the water and would not re-start. The Bombardier dealer told him they don't work on 2 strokes anymore and advised that the compression was 50 and 100. The owner advised me he checked it himself and found 75 and 75. The Seadoo's info gauge says 172 hours. The previous owner says it's all original except for a racing intake and impeller?

I towed it home and it will start but not run. I read 35 and 60 psi for compression but my gauge is known to read low. I can feel weak compression by using my thumb on the spark plug holes. The front cylinder is clearly the weaker of the two. So I'm thinking I'll buy a complete top end kit and have a machine shop bore the cylinders over for me.

It looks to me like I can do the top end inside the seadoo (but is it better to just get it out for convenience?)
It looks to me like I may need to buy a wrist pin tool but there is a method for installing with the plastic holder in the kit?
There is discussion about three choices for gasket thickness but I'd assume I can just buy the same one that came out?
There is discussion about volumetric measurement of the combustion chamber but no adjustment procedure (skip that step?)
Is any rebuild kit as good as the next?
Anything to do or check before I open it up and get started?

I have never done a top end but I am a very competent backyard mechanic with extensive experience and it's time I learned how.
I've looked in my 1998 (non-Direct Injection) shop manual and it doesn't look too hard.

Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge with a newbie!

Jeff

 

[mikidymac]

At 172 hours you are going to have to replace the crank and balancer also.
You would be much better off just buying a reman engine from SBT.

 

[jhanratt]

I read a few more threads here and understand that the bottom end is likely only good to 200 hours. YIKES.
I looked at SBT as you suggested but at $1695 US plus shipping I might be better to part the doo out.

What about this listing on ebay for a rebuild?
903 previous transactions with 100% seller feedback?
at $995 including shipping its a bit more palatable.

Rebuilt Sea-Doo 947 Rotax Engine, Seadoo 951 engine, seadoo motor, seadoo engine | eBay

Any good shops in British Columbia Canada?

I also read in another post that I would require an alignment tool to re install the engine back into the hull.

Thanks again for your time. I do appreciate it!

Jeff

 

[jimmyluke]

The eBay ad that you posted does not say anything about it being a DI engine

 

[drjack]

Since the engine needs work, why not try to pull it out and tear it down yourself? If you believe it's beyond economical repair, you still can part it out.
There's reputable machine shops, that others here can point the way, that will bore your cylinders and supply with matching pistons; complete cranks and engine gasket kits for under $1200 us.
Something I learned from a wise old mechanic, you can't break it if it's already broken. (Usually )

 

[mikidymac]

Yes, a top end rebuild will be $500ish but it's the crankshaft, balancer, gaskets and reeds that add up.

 

[jhanratt]

MY BAD! On not reading the description thoroughly.
What are my odds if I throw a top end only at it?
I’m only in the seadoo for $400 Canadian and would consider trying a top end only. It’s not a huge loss if the bottom end blows and wrecks the case.

 

[mikidymac]

Your chances are pretty low that it will survive, I would say 25%.

 

[jhanratt]

Thank you mikidymac! Your message is Bad news indeed but i'd rather not do top end only to have the motor crater. So at this point I'm thinking a premium rebuild engine from SES:

Seadoo Engine Shop: Providing you with remanufactured SEADOO engines, great price, fast return! - SEADOO ENGINES PREMIUM

at $1,100 american it seems like my best value. They currently have free shipping both ways right now too.

Does anybody have any experience with this company before I end them $1,100 us dollars???

 

[WaarrEagle]

Thank you mikidymac! Your message is Bad news indeed but i'd rather not do top end only to have the motor crater. So at this point I'm thinking a premium rebuild engine from SES:

Seadoo Engine Shop: Providing you with remanufactured SEADOO engines, great price, fast return! - SEADOO ENGINES PREMIUM

at $1,100 american it seems like my best value. They currently have free shipping both ways right now too.

Does anybody have any experience with this company before I end them $1,100 us dollars???

I am curious to hear what you decide. I haven't gotten to my engine rebuild yet, but am currently debating between doing it myself, WFO (local to me in Houston), or sending it out of state. SES sure seems like the lowest price but it may be a case of getting what you pay for. Reviews seem mixed from a quick google search - some great and some less so.

 

[mikidymac]

You can do some search here on SES and I can tell you it is not positive. Like bad communication at 8+ months to get an engine back. THe work appears to be good but communication and delays are the big issue. Fullbore is good but has been slow lately so not sure I would 100% recommend them either.
SBT is probably just average quality but they ship immediately when you order but you are getting an exchange engine that could be welded, a salt turd or who knows what core instead of your actual engine back.

 

[jhanratt]

Thanks for the help.

I pulled everything connected to the engine and labelled it all for re-assembly.
I tried to lift the engine out but can't get it loose? I assume the PTO will slide free from the pump shaft. Maybe not? Do I need to the pull the pump and shaft first? before I can take out the engine?

Also I painted witness marks around the mounting bolts and washers hoping this will eliminate the need to buy or borrow an alignment tool? It seems to me if all shims are left in place and the bolts are lined up exactly the alignment should remain exactly as it was.

Go easy on me I'm totally new to seadoos.

What a miserable job getting all the allen bolts out of the exhaust! This is a PIG to work on!

 

[statikuz]

Pulling the pump and shaft will make lifting the engine out easier but you don't have to (although putting it back in when you're done will be tougher than getting it out if you don't). You can remove the front engine mount and slide the engine forward off the drive shaft and lift it out that way.

Yes, theoretically if you put it back in the exact way it came out it shouldn't change alignment, but that's assuming it was aligned correctly in the first place - I have read about them not being right to begin with.

 

[jhanratt]

Thank you.
I pulled the the pump and shaft.
The engine is out hanging and from my beam.
The back of one of the impeller blades is bent.
All of them are scratched and scored.
Looks like I'll have to take that apart too.

 

[benjilafouine]

Have a look at these guys: http://www.cvtech-aab.com/en/

Canadian company based in Quebec province. I got an engine from them and it is still running strong after 218 hours. Just like new.

 

[jhanratt]

I called this morning they quoted $2,300 cdn plus shipping both ways at my cost.
I'm thinking I will go with SES since I have some time. They stated I would not get it back until January though.

Looking through the exhaust it looks like pistons both hit Rave valves. Both are damaged at the rings right at the very front edge. I know they are not supposed to interfere but thats what it looks like at this point.

 

[benjilafouine]

Just make sure that if you order from the US you will not get charged any customs fees.

 

[jhanratt]

Took it apart tonight. Really looks like rave valves interfered with pistons but maybe rings failed at rave valve.

 

[jhanratt]

Heads saw some shrapnel too.

 

[jhanratt]

Wrist pins saw some heat.
So did top rod bearings.

 

[jhanratt]

Bottom connecting rod bearings look ok from what I can see through the oiling port.
Some surface corrosion on crankshaft weights.
Not excessive in my opinion.

 

[jhanratt]

I spoke to a local guy who used to work in brp dealership. He said I should to do the top end and clean out the bottom end really well.
Said he’s done lots of successful top ends but the 947 was a lemon. He suggested a local machine shop that has done head work for me in the past.

 

[mikidymac]

That crank is done and needs to be replaced or it will let go on you.

 

[jhanratt]

Update. I followed your advice on the full rebuild. I did not follow your advice on the company. I used SES. I think I shipped in late September possibly early October. I shipped my engine in for a rebuild in late November and SES received my engine on November 27. It is now February 18 and I don't have my engine back yet. I sent an email last week inquiring about the status and I did not receive a reply. It seems to me that when I shipped the engine he told me that he had got busy since we first talked and that he was looking at a February return date so I'm not too worried yet.

I phoned SES on February 18 and Thom advised me that he expected to ship my engine in about a week and a half. I will keep you posted and will report back on my experience with SES. So far all calls have been answered and text replies have been prompt with the exception of the one email.

 

[mikidymac]

I wish you luck in getting your engine soon.