1999 GTI carbon ring... mine appears to be brass. Is this normal? Pics attached.

[Kwik_uk]

Hi all,

I'm in the process of full resto on my newly purchased 1999 GTI (720, single carb).

The motor is off getting new crank seals and a rebore (was running 125 psi, 134 psi), so whilst the motor is out, I thought I might as well change the carbon seal. It's not leaking or pulling air that I can see, but I thought I might as well while I have access.

Here lies the problem: (Please ignore how dirty it is in the photo, it is factory clean again now as is all the metalwork)


That to me looks like a brass ring, not a carbon ring?

Is this aftermarket or a bodge? (For which I would not be shocked, the previous owner was "interesting" in his approach to anything mechanical :facepalm

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

Well, clearly someone also didn't use a stainless steel clamp... I hate people like that!

 

[Kwik_uk]

Well, clearly someone also didn't use a stainless steel clamp... I hate people like that!

Tell me about it. The first thing I did with the entire ski was get rid of all the non-stainless hardware. It wasn't just limited to clamps:facepalm:

 

[AdamXP800]

Never seen a carbon seal like this



96 XP800!
Keep the 2 strokes alive!

 

[racerxxx]

That's backwoods right there.

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[AdamXP800]

Homemade job?



96 XP800!
Keep the 2 strokes alive!

 

[Kwik_uk]

Must be. Thing is it's working quite well. No moisture in or air out from it (that I can tell).

Not sure whether to leave it alone or put an OEM unit in.


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[CReynoldsMIZ]

Definitely put the OEM unit on. Better yet, OSDParts.com sells a heavy duty unit. That thing is asking for trouble

 

[nckb]

That's really interesting. Copper alloys do make good bearing material, so it is entirely possible the prior owner knew what he was doing and made his own. However, given that the prior owner did not understand materials well enough to get stainless clamps, I'd bet that he read somewhere that "copper alloys make good bearings" and rigged one up.

If it were my ski, I'd be tempted to leave it and see how it works out. But I would never give that advice to anyone, too much risk.

 

[reedsposer22]

Hi all,

Is this aftermarket or a bodge? (For which I would not be shocked, the previous owner was "interesting" in his approach to anything mechanical :facepalm

That is not the carbon ring itself, it appears to be a gold/brass clamp surrounding it!

 

[mikidymac]

Actually the part that is gold in color is what has been substituted incorrectly for the actual carbon ring. The carbon ring will withstand higher temperatures and is somewhat self lubricating unlike the brass. The brass could cause much more wear on the stainless hat than the carbon also. THe rusted clamp should be replaced and he is also missing the clamp on the PTO boot too.

 

[reedsposer22]

Actually the part that is gold in color is what has been substituted incorrectly for the actual carbon ring. The carbon ring will withstand higher temperatures and is somewhat self lubricating unlike the brass. The brass could cause much more wear on the stainless hat than the carbon also. THe rusted clamp should be replaced and he is also missing the clamp on the PTO boot too.

I did not realize this! Also, to correct you, the clamp is not rusted in classic sense, see the green? It has copper in it, thus green in color! It is oxidizing, which is actually the layman term rust, so technically you are right! Thanks for the correction, it looked like it was on top of the carbon ring.

 

[AdamXP800]

No that clamp is straight up rusted. The makeshift copper carbon ring is what you are seeing the green on



96 XP800!
Keep the 2 strokes alive!

 

[mikidymac]

No that clamp is straight up rusted. The makeshift copper carbon ring is what you are seeing the green on



96 XP800!
Keep the 2 strokes alive!

Splitting hairs the "makeshift BRASS ring is what you are seeing", not copper. LOL

 

[AdamXP800]

Lol shit brass my bad haha. Had a brain fart there



96 XP800!
Keep the 2 strokes alive!

 

[reedsposer22]

No that clamp is straight up rusted. The makeshift copper carbon ring is what you are seeing the green on



96 XP800!
Keep the 2 strokes alive!

Thank you for the correction good sir. I became confused. I will now not attempt to make corrections!

 

[mikidymac]

Thank you for the correction good sir. I became confused. I will now not attempt to make corrections!

Please make corrections. We are not always correct either. Friends helping friends here and welcome the the forum.

 

[Kwik_uk]

Actually the part that is gold in color is what has been substituted incorrectly for the actual carbon ring. The carbon ring will withstand higher temperatures and is somewhat self lubricating unlike the brass. The brass could cause much more wear on the stainless hat than the carbon also. THe rusted clamp should be replaced and he is also missing the clamp on the PTO boot too.

The clamp was indeed rusted. In fact so much so that it snapped when I tried to release it.

The previous owner didn't grasp the requirement that all hardware needs to be stainless in a marine environment.
I spent a good deal of time when I first got the boat, not just cleaning but also replacing hardware like this.

With regards to the brass ring - it seems to work OK. Since I've had the boat I've done a full resto on it. It's finished the run in period and runs beautifully. This brass ring is the only thing that gives me any concern. On one hand I know it isn't OEM, yet on the other it's doing the job well, and in theory doesn't run the risk of cracking or breaking up like a carbon ring.

I'm going to rebuild the pump when the season finishes, at this point I will possibly swap it out.

I've been told by a few chaps I ran with, that a bearing carrier is a better option? I'm new to PWCs as my background is all boats.

Is this a better option? If so does anyone have any information they could point me at? I've had a quick search, but with limited results.

I'll be running this ski in mainly a salt environment, and usually when there aren't many (if any) people around. Staying safe and afloat is my primary goal.

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[kevinz]

I used to be of the opinion that the carrier bearing assembly was better because my experience with skis up until I got my GTi was with Polaris, who used the carrier bearings in all their skis I think. I was a bit nervous about the carbon seal because I could not see for the life of me how in world it would seal well enough to stop water from getting in. I even thought about switching to the carrier assembly on mine. In the end, I kept the carbon ring and it's worked fantastic this summer. The ski sat all weekend tied to a dock and was also ridden hard, and there is always a tiny bit of water in it but I think that is to be expected.

 

[Kwik_uk]

I used to be of the opinion that the carrier bearing assembly was better because my experience with skis up until I got my GTi was with Polaris, who used the carrier bearings in all their skis I think. I was a bit nervous about the carbon seal because I could not see for the life of me how in world it would seal well enough to stop water from getting in. I even thought about switching to the carrier assembly on mine. In the end, I kept the carbon ring and it's worked fantastic this summer. The ski sat all weekend tied to a dock and was also ridden hard, and there is always a tiny bit of water in it but I think that is to be expected.

I think I'll swap over to a heavy duty carbon ring when I rebuild the pump. I'll also be leaving mine in the marina overnight or tied up to the boat, so something watertight would be ideal!

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