1998 GSX Limited (Carb'd 951)- Just needs a starter!

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Krispy

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So I am looking at buying a second ski for family and friends to use while I am out on my 96XP.

I have found a 1998 Seadoo GSX Limited that apparently just needs a starter.

..:WAIT:.. :hat:

Before everyone chimes in and says run far far away hear me out.

The seller of this ski is the same one that sold me my 96XP. In fact I looked the ski over before I purchased my XP as he was interested in unloading both but I didn't have plans for 2 at that time.

Allegedly the guy purchased the GSX for himself and the XP (now mine) for is GF. She didn't like the XP and they didn't end up riding much. At the end of last season he had all sorts of problems with the 951 in the GSX. The seller is a nice guy and all but being not so mechanically inclined brought the ski to his mechanic who fixed it (charged him an arm and a leg apparently). The mechanic apparently rebuilt the engine and carbs and had the ski running well. (There is paperwork and old parts to support this work, or so I am told)

He now says it is making a loud grinding noise while attempting to start it. He is sure that it is the starter or bendix, but I am not so sure. When I was lake testing the XP I purchased from him, my once over on the engine before the ride showed me that the spark plugs and battery terminals were only finger tight. I am not confident in this sellers ability to accurately diagnose a problem with the ski as I found those basic things wrong.

Generally speaking I never by a ski with out a lake test, or at a minimum a compression test if I know I will have to work on it. But I may be willing to tackle another project if I get the right "deal"

Stand by for pics:

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I'm not exactly sure what the question is here... But with a crapped out starter and no way to check the compression it's a crap shoot weather "all it needs is a starter" or really "it doesn't run and I have no clue what's wrong with it".

I'd at least pull the plugs make sure it turns over by hand, pop the raves off and look at the pistons
 
I agree, if the guy is as honest as you think, tell him you will replace the starter and if there are major problems you intend to return the ski, that way you're only out the cost of rebuilding the starter, about $20.00 plus your time.

That's a real nice trailer, I like the center walkboard.

Lou
 
Lou makes a great point. I'd rather waiste 20$ and some time than a few thousand on someone else's problem ski that I purchased.
 
I guess the question then becomes: how difficult is it to replace the starter?

Ie does the engine have to come out? Are there any special tools required.

What's it worth in the unknown condition?

What's it worth running with a rebuilt engine?
 
I don't know about a starter for a 951, it's not that hard for a 787 or 717. Maybe the rodent will pick up on this thread, if not PM him.

Lou
 
I'd start the bidding at $400.

I'm sure I could bring it back, but I have 951 parts and tools laying around.

I'd inspect the engine via the raves. The PTO cover is missing, as is the silencer, and that intake is definitely 1997.5/98. I'd replace that stuff with the 99+ spec.

Your going to have to pull that engine to change the Bendix or at least verify its in good shape. If this was a XP you might be able to do it in hull. But that pipe, carbs, and engine has to be pulled out to mess w/the Bendix. Not to mention pulling the flywheel. So... At that point might as well ship the engine out for a rebuild, install new fuel lines, clean the carbs (or if your lazy like me, buy new), then for my $400 offer, all gauges, VTS, and sensors must work.

Just looking at the pics, the heads been off, note the paint chips on the bolts. Note the black (not painted) head gasket. The choke cable looks fubared. Scupper is dislodged. Battery vent tube is off.

But I'd have to see it in person to go any deeper.
So... Have fun! :)

The GSX 951 pipe install is a BBBEEEEEEAAAAACCCHHH. Hardest pipe install ever. (XP is easiest, GTX is next)
 
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Ouch squirrel! You sir have a keen eye. Thanks for the feedback.

The seller is asking &1700 with the trailer.

I don't know the condition of the engine but the head gasket was changed when the engine was rebuilt, hince the paint chipped bolts.

I am not sure about the missing pto cover or are intake/silencer. That's a good catch. What the hell is a scupper?

I think the deal breaker here is the starter, if I could change it I could test out the other stuff. I am not willing to pull the engine just to find out what's really going on at his asking price.

While I would love to pay your starting price I don't think it is realistic. I mean the trailer alone is worth $400. This means you are considering the ski a write off.

What's this thing worth as a good running ski?
 
$400 was for the ski. $800 with the double.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scupper

The small black plastic thing that sucks water out of the hull.

Does the electric bildge pump work?

I think the ski can be brought back. But a $100 starter, $900 engine, and $200 in misc puts you at $1600.

Running, for just the ski, around here might fetch 2k.

If all the electronics work, offer $1k even. You have no idea what does / doesn't work.


I paid $1k for a running 99 GSX AND double trailer last fall. Ski needed some light work (cleaned carbs, new fuel filter, and bildge pump). Trailer needed some lights. (And most of the exhaust was loose. I fixed all that in a day or two.

Not a bad day lol.

Picked up a "running" GTX for $900 w/single trailer while it was snowing. New fuel lines and carbs later.... Runs like a champ.

If I can't get it cheap, I pass. These things are 15 years old! Let it sit and the price will fall, or let someone else take the risk.

Just like most of the skis I pickup, the owner knows nothing, which is actually slightly more than whoever is working on these things for them!
 
Last Nov 2012 i paid $900 for a running Florida 99 GSX L, I had the carbs rebuilt to be sure, fuel lines changed & the pipe welded. I'm now just getting the VTS and fuel baffle in working order.
It can very easily "quarter & dollar" you to death. :)
 
Thanks for all the feedback guys. I will see if I can talk the guy down on the price, else I walk.

Originally when I met with the guy to buy the XP he saw how closely I looked everything over and asked if I was a mechanic. He told me that he felt I could do a better job than the guy he normally uses and wanted to know if I was interested in fixing the GSX to make it an easier sell. At that point I wasn't interested.

So considering you have to remove so much to replace the starter and bendix what would a shop charge for that type of work?

What do you guys think about me quoting him a price on fixing the starter and bendix issue?

While I have the ski I could give it a complete look over and decide if I want to purchase it or not. If I want to walk away from the ski at that point he pays me a fair price for my labor and its a done deal. If I am interested in the ski the labor cost comes off the asking price.

Considering to remove the starter I have to pull the exhaust, and carbs I will need gaskets for both, in addition to the parts. Parts cost looks something like this from SBT (assuming I don't rebuild the starter and the bendix needs to be replaced)



Then there is shipping. UGH! Its assumed that the seller pays for all the parts and shipping and I just perform the "work".

What do you guys think about the fix it with the option to buy proposal? I kind of just thought of this so I am sure there are a lot of angle's I haven't thought of .
 
first, i'd ask whats the price point... what is he looking to get out of it today.

seconds, i'd strongly consider a used/rebuilt starter, should be quite a bit less...

no issues with the fix it/option scenario, but only if the price point is higher than your comfort zone, if you can get the price point low enough your better off just buying / fixing/ selling yourself, vs having him enjoy the profits from your labor. However, the positive part of you doing the work is you make a few bucks, and there is no financial risk.
 
why do you think you need to pull the carbs/pipe to change the starter?

i'm 95% sure you can do it without. you'd only have to pull the engine to work on the bendix.
 
why do you think you need to pull the carbs/pipe to change the starter?

i'm 95% sure you can do it without. you'd only have to pull the engine to work on the Bendix.

I guess I miss understood you. On some other skis I have worked on you had to pull the engine to get the starter out, mainly due to the fact that yes you could remove the bolts, but then you couldn't slide the starter out due to space restrictions.

The grinding while starting has me a bit worried. Is it possible to put the mag cover on the ski to take a look at the "front" end of the starter Bendix and flywheel? If it is indeed grinding and the starter is "working" It makes me think the Bendix has a problem. Any Bendix I have had fail was not grinding, only failing to disengage/ engage the flywheel.

Spim, the price he is at now is $1700. I haven't bothered to talk him down any on it yet as I never really priced any GSX models/ didn't know enough about repairing them etc. I think he knows I am going to try and talk him down, I was able to talk him off a couple of hundred dollars on the XP I purchased from him.

If I had to guess, in his mind he wants to get no less than $1500. I think he just paid somewhere near that for the engine and fuel system rebuild from his "mechanic".
 
More pics, lets play spot the problems.

Looks like at least the multi gauge works. Note the hours.

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sorry, I stopped spotting problems when I read $1700 :(

i'd definitely switch gears from purchase/flip to charge labor to fix.. there's very little upside in this even if it really does just need a starter.
 
at 175 hours, you are at 88% of that engine's expected life. Starter or not, get ready to rebuild that engine. $1k.

So, yea, my original offer of $400 holds, if all the electronics work.
 
sorry, I stopped spotting problems when I read $1700 :(

i'd definitely switch gears from purchase/flip to charge labor to fix.. there's very little upside in this even if it really does just need a starter.

So basically you are saying that even if the buyer pays for the starter replacement (~call it 150) And it ends up being in working condition ,the ski in that shape with trailer isn't worth $1700?

I think Squirrel is at a value of 1K in the condition as described and somewhere near $1500 as a good deal in running shape. What do you think?
 
at 175 hours, you are at 88% of that engine's expected life. Starter or not, get ready to rebuild that engine. $1k.

So, yea, my original offer of $400 holds, if all the electronics work.

His mechanic just went through the engine. Say less than 5 hours on the engine since rebuild. This means that the motor is fresh. Allegedly the seller has paperwork and the old pistons from the rebuild to prove the work was done. I haven't seen any of that or even poked around so it is still hearsay at this point.

After the rebuild the seller had the starting/ grinding issue and decided he didn't want to sink any more $ into it.
 
sorry, basically just skimmed the posts, was sidetracked while multi tasking...

assuming info on the rebuild is correct, then it changes things dramatically... value wise...

"as is" i'd put a value around $900, tops, because you can't verify compression, which is critical... but the sum of the parts is worth $900+ as long as the cases don't have a hole in them somewhere...

if the seller is willing to pay labor to do minor/medium repairs, then willing to negiotiate in good faith from that point, then i'd run with it...

assuming its fixed and your looking at what.... $350 for parts/labor ??? he's basically stating that he's at around $1350 value right now... his net amount in his pocket after expenses.. which is more than fair... and honestly when the engine is out, its the perfect time to clean the inside of the hull... its almost a must.. but if your doing that work, if you don't charge at least $60 for doing just the pressure cleaning alone, your not doing yourself any favors...

but a 98 gsxL, even with that color scheme (my least favorite) that needs some cosmetic love (buffing/mats &misc) but is mechanically sound, is easily worth $1700 + for a buyer that wants to use it as a personal ski, about $1200 max for a flipper (gotta leave wiggle room) the added bonus if you fix it AND buy it is that your getting paid to improve it, so your really only paying sub $1500 for the ski fixed since you got a couple hondo in labor.

so based on that, I think it makes sense to pursue it, assuming I'm reading it all correctly..
the worst thing that happens is you get to mess around with a 951, make a few bucks,learn a few things, and do a guy a solid..

the best thing that happens is that you find that the engine is clean as a whistle inside, has solid compression, and runs great with functioning gauges, trim, good pump, etc.. and you get a ski for about $300 or more under retail value.

in reality however, you'll probably find a lot of other ticky tack stuff that will eat up that $300 rather quickly in the short term. but keep in mind $300 is nothing in the big picture, if it was rebuilt correctly, you've got an engine that might run solid for the next 4 seasons...

that particular model is a funny animal, some people (myself included) just absolutely hate the color scheme so it will limit the market for the ski since more than a few people would rather pay more for one that is easier on the eyes...
 
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I am not to crazy about the color scheme either. I will let the possible owner decide. What ever ski I end up getting is going into a strange ownership/ maintenance relationship that belongs in another thread.

So here is a possibility that I don't know how to protect myself from. What if I change the items in the starting system the seller thinks are bad and that doesn't solve the problem, worse yet. What if the "new" engine is toasted and he blames me for it as I was the last person to do work on it.

I just wonder how to protect myself from any liability that may arise from me taking this on as a repair job...
 
Me personally like the color combo - I own(ed) several different GSX's and still have not been able to get a 98 Limited. Its on my wish list.
Installed a fresh 951 in a 97.5 limited tonight. Candy red paint.

 
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