1995 SeaDoo Speedster Direct injection to premix Question

[Jimimad]

First , let me thank all the readers , commenters and Moderators of this Forum. You guys really have an intimate knowledge of these machines.

My question is , how would I know if my ( new to me) used 95 Speedster(Twin Rotax 657's) has undergone the direct injected to premix surgery ? What are the signs that I should be looking for ? I have purchased the Shop Manual and have the drawings of the lube system.

When I purchased the boat , the seller had little intimate knowledge of it , as he had only owned it a few weeks and im sure cleaned it up and ditched it in a fast buck turnover. Good for him , he made a few bucks. No hard feelings. My intent is to make sure I have everything in proper working order , getting it back to factory original direct injected, if it has been modified. From reading comments on this topic , I understand the logic in going pre-mix , pump failure etc , but at this time Id like to rely on good new parts and just keep it stock.
One nice feature Ive found is this Snipping tool I use to screen capture the manual so you have a better idea of what Im rambling on about. Here is a picture of the Speedster lube oil system from the shop manual. If you have Snipping tool on your windows computer, you can capture the picture , draw on it and upload it back with the modifications , notes etc.
Yea I know. Too much coffee today.

 

[Dr Honda]

this may sound like an obvious answer... but are any of the parts in that diagram missing? If they are in your boat... then no... if they are missing... then yes.

Check your boat to see if all the hoses are still there.

 

[voodoo]

As Tony said, follow the oil tank line/s the answer is where they stop. If you find everything piping is in place then see if the carb cable/s are in place and adjusted, the alingment marks on the flat top motors are hard to see so wipe off the cable racks carefully and get your girlfriends nail polish and put a dot on the side of each mark - now you can see how the lines should meet when the carb cable/s are at rest meaning idle, it is still a good idea to make 5-7 gallons premix to begin the season and mark the oil tank to be sure the motor/s are drinking, once this is verified just add gas and go.

 

[seadooya]

this may sound like an obvious answer... but are any of the parts in that diagram missing? If they are in your boat... then no... if they are missing... then yes.

Check your boat to see if all the hoses are still there.

wouldnt rely on that observation...possible the previous owner, removed the rv cover, knocked out the white spur gear, then re-installed everything, making it look like factory...

If anything, locate the big oil line with the "filter" inline, see if it goes directly to the oil pump which is located under the carbs. If so, then i'd say its still connected/setup for injection...also, inspect the little oil lines from the pump to rv cover, see if they're there, filled with oil

 

[Jimimad]

Thank you for your fast responses.

So typically ,when this modification is made , are just the lines plugged off or is there a more extensive manner to cutting the oil injection from the fuel delivery ?
Again , with no prior knowledge as to the extent of this modification , what typically are the parts removed.? As Dr. Honda pointed out , the oil lines should be checked. Ok. Are there any typical modifications that are made to the carbs or oil pumps themselves ? Internal modifications ? I read that a driveshaft may be removed in some cases. I just dont want to "assume" and make an anchor out of my motors.
Thank you again , for your replies.

As Tony said, follow the oil tank line/s the answer is where they stop. If you find everything piping is in place then see if the carb cable/s are in place and adjusted, the alingment marks on the flat top motors are hard to see so wipe off the cable racks carefully and get your girlfriends nail polish and put a dot on the side of each mark - now you can see how the lines should meet when the carb cable/s are at rest meaning idle, it is still a good idea to make 5-7 gallons premix to begin the season and mark the oil tank to be sure the motor/s are drinking, once this is verified just add gas and go.

 

[Jimimad]

I was replying when you were. Thank you. Spur gear, not driveshaft. This is what I was concerned about , might look like factory but isnt. Ok , going to check out the little oil lines for oil ASAP. No air bubbles.
RV Cover. Got it.
THANKS !

wouldnt rely on that observation...possible the previous owner, removed the rv cover, knocked out the white spur gear, then re-installed everything, making it look like factory...

If anything, locate the big oil line with the "filter" inline, see if it goes directly to the oil pump which is located under the carbs. If so, then i'd say its still connected/setup for injection...also, inspect the little oil lines from the pump to rv cover, see if they're there, filled with oil

 

[Jimimad]

and then the bad news

Thank you , Dr Honda , Seedooya and Voodoo.

the bad news. The little lines at the right engine carbs are cut or broken. Both severed. the oil cable is also just hanging. The oil tank leaks from the fittings on the bottom, that explains the oil in the engine compartment. At my next opportunity , I will take the airbox and plate off the left carbs and see if this is consitent.
I guess I have my work cut out for me. First , seal leaks. Second , decide wether to invest in getting the carbs set back up for D/I.

Opinions ?

 

[seadooya]

whats the compressions at?

 

[Jimimad]

Compression

I haven't gotten that far yet Seadooya. I'll have to get a compression tester, and buy some time. I will post when I know.

Right now , Im digging to see if I can find pictures of the oil lines and injection cable all set up,so I know the direction to go and maybe identify any missing parts. I read there are some folks "parting out" their Speedsters here, so I might just buy an intake manifold assembly to tinker with and rob parts from. All the while teaching myself Seadoo mechanics. Its been a while since I played at all with motors.

 

[Dr Honda]

Normally the little manifold goes cheap, and they will normally have the oil pump still bolted onto it. If someone here doesn't have one... check eBay. You should be able to get it for $10.

 

[Jimimad]

I got the tester today . Compression for right motor is 110 , 140psi , left motor 140, 140. Motors were cold when tested. Choke not pulled out. Unsure how to test really, but a baseline for sure. I guess I can run them in the water and get a test after I pull it up or at the launch to see if there is any change. The plug gaps were a little wide. The manual says .020inches (.50 mm ) so i gapped them to spec. I assume the seller put in new plugs. They werent fouled but had some oil film on them. Even the low cylinder.
Friday im pulling the oil tank and chasing a leaking fitting(s). I got new tubing for the large oil lines at my local Ace Hardware , and spotted fittings at my local West Marine. I had to order Quicksilver 2-stroke online but got 3 gals for $85 shipped. They also had life jackets for 4-$50.
Im sure I missed some things , but Im getting closer to ready for summer !

Thanks again for the advice.!

whats the compressions at?

 

[seadooya]

where you located?

compressions' good, as for the little oil lines, hit up Ace Hardware, get 2ft it, and ziptie them on. With motor idling, hold the oil pump arm fully open, to prime the lines...

 

[parrothd]

I got the tester today . Compression for right motor is 110 , 140psi , left motor 140, 140. Motors were cold when tested. Choke not pulled out. Unsure how to test really, but a baseline for sure. I guess I can run them in the water and get a test after I pull it up or at the launch to see if there is any change. The plug gaps were a little wide. The manual says .020inches (.50 mm ) so i gapped them to spec. I assume the seller put in new plugs. They werent fouled but had some oil film on them. Even the low cylinder.
Friday im pulling the oil tank and chasing a leaking fitting(s). I got new tubing for the large oil lines at my local Ace Hardware , and spotted fittings at my local West Marine. I had to order Quicksilver 2-stroke online but got 3 gals for $85 shipped. They also had life jackets for 4-$50.
Im sure I missed some things , but Im getting closer to ready for summer !

Thanks again for the advice.!

"Compression for right motor is 110 , 140psi"

Looks like you need at least a top end...The compression numbers should be close to the same across both cylinders..

 

[Jimimad]

Thanks for the reply !
I thought those numbers needed to be closer and anticipate a look in the top end at some point , BUT , I want to get the oil system lined out first . Could it have been the method of checking it that gave me inconsistent results ? Im no Tech. This is the first boat I ever owned. I took the compression test , all plugs out , engine dead cold. I am planning on getting the boat out in the water again , give it a good warming up , run it in the harbor and check compression again .

Advice ?

"Compression for right motor is 110 , 140psi"

Looks like you need at least a top end...The compression numbers should be close to the same across both cylinders..

 

[Dr Honda]

The test should be done cold. Ground the spark plug wires. Hold the throttle open, and crank. You should see your max PSI in just a couple cycles.

 

[Jimimad]

Thanks Tony. I'll try it with the throttles open this time.

 

[voodoo]

Once you decide to fix you will find these small lines are really low cost to replace, just do them and the fuel lines if any doubt - air leakage or fuel starvation will be your enemy with the 2stroke family, it is hard to see and fix the flat top motors oiling pump but once you do one the other will come easier - put a spot of nail polish next to each of the alignment marks on the pump cable guides so when you get the carbs on you know where to align the cables.

 

[Jimimad]

Thanks for the advice !
I got the small lines in yesterday. Like you said , they were cheap to replace. 1/8 ID clear tubing and alot of patient climbing and I got them all replaced. Im just happy to have those cut lines sealed up , even if the D-I is still out of commission. Cables and arms dont seem to be attached properly. Im going to put the oil tank back in today. The black Permatex needed 24 hours to fully cure. I dont want to take chances with oil leaks. Once the leaks are stopped , I'll invest more time into getting the D-I back in shape. It may take a motor(s) pull, and I think if it does, im going to have a local shop do it. I've read plenty of comments about "stealerships", but I'll be the first to admit this work is beyond my skill level, and should be done by someone with proper experience.
More to come.

Once you decide to fix you will find these small lines are really low cost to replace, just do them and the fuel lines if any doubt - air leakage or fuel starvation will be your enemy with the 2stroke family, it is hard to see and fix the flat top motors oiling pump but once you do one the other will come easier - put a spot of nail polish next to each of the alignment marks on the pump cable guides so when you get the carbs on you know where to align the cables.

 

[Jimimad]

Answering my own question

As a follow thru , this is what I found with my boat. Readers of this thread may find this useful , if they are looking for signs of modifications.

First, the little lines on the carbs were cut in half. Not removed, not plugged, just severed. The large lines with filters on them that feed the direct injection were pulled off the D/I barbed nozzles and looped back to eachother with another piece of tubing. The oil pump nozzles were not plugged off , just left open. The oiler cables have been de-nutted so that when the throttle is engaged the oiler cable doesnt get a tug too. This seems like the only legit portion of the surgery the previous owner performed.
I also found that the clamp holding the oil line to the bottom of the passenger side engine had come off and was bleeding oil profusely. TIP: If youre already under the hood, check this clamp !! Both sides. It will save you time and effort later and possibly a smoked motor , plus all that expensive 2-stroke oil.

Since discovery of this mess, I decided to replace the small lines , and attach them to original spec. I plugged off the oiler lines with a long piece of tubing that I can later reattach the oil filters to if I get the D/I working again. I folded over and zip tied the ends to prevent leakage of air/seepage of water.

Any advice on the direction to take next , or reasoning for the "hack job" on the D/I system would be greatly appreciated. Anyone have similar experiences to share ?
Jim.

 

[voodoo]

Hacking joba are seen plentiful when you purchase a used boat, it is good you stopped in here for guidance from the folks who all have more experience than I do - I am just a refrigeration mechanic with 9 kids who have friends owning these and they come to me for some advice - some stay around longer than others, but we have had them in our own family now 6 years after getting one from a family member out of state, you can tell these guys and gals here know the details, imagine if the previous owner had taken some time to learn or ask and invested a few bux to prevent the leaks like you have.

 

[Jimimad]

One truth stands clear , a used boat is a great reason to buy NEW tools !

My wife even suggested that Milwaukee makes a "snake camera " that would have been useful for finding little problems that cant be seen from above. Bless her heart ! I dont see investing in one of those just yet, but the compression tester , the vacuum siphon , used-oil storage pan , funnels , and misc stainless hardware will all come in handy.!
Thanks again for everyones help.

Hacking joba are seen plentiful when you purchase a used boat, it is good you stopped in here for guidance from the folks who all have more experience than I do - I am just a refrigeration mechanic with 9 kids who have friends owning these and they come to me for some advice - some stay around longer than others, but we have had them in our own family now 6 years after getting one from a family member out of state, you can tell these guys and gals here know the details, imagine if the previous owner had taken some time to learn or ask and invested a few bux to prevent the leaks like you have.

 

[Jimimad]

What more can be said. ?

Picture From today. Thank you everyone for your incredible advice !! My oldest and I had the time of our lives this morning just tearing up the waterways.

 

[jeepfreak]

Now that is a happy face ~~~ I am going to be looking at a '95 speedster tomorrow, I hope it is worth trading my 4 wheeler for. Your's is turning out to sound like a lot of fun

Will[


QUOTE=Jimimad;123115]Picture From today. Thank you everyone for your incredible advice !! My oldest and I had the time of our lives this morning just tearing up the waterways.[/QUOTE]

 

[Jimimad]

Happy Face

Yes, you are correct, that is one happy face. I admit , plenty of hours of scowls and cursing to get me to that point.

 

[cheappc]

what is the status of your boat?