Hello everyone. im new to this site, and also new to watercraft. I work at a snowmobile, motorcyle and atv dealership though, and have my fair share of mechanical knowledge. I have been doing my research, and recently purchased a 1994 sea doo xp. Now comes the weird part, when researching the machine, i came to find it should have a 657x engine in it, but only when i got it home did i realize it says on the engine stamping that it is a 587. Now, i have no idea what im getting into as i had been led to believe it was a 657x, and had researched these engines thoroughly. I know nothing about a 587 rotax, or why it is in this machine. Any input on this engine would be greatly appriciated, just trying to see what im looking at as far as reliability, and performance in this ski, being as it is a 94'. Also, any guess's why someone would swap a 587 into an xp? it seems to run good though, so i guess ill just run it for now. thanks for any input. Also, one more question. I have a spare 587 white engine case and crank, if I got 657 (non x) cylinders, pistons, and a head for it, would they work with that case and crank? Would that be a worthwhile change over the 587? Thanks
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Someone just swapped it in...prob b/c it was the cheap fix. The 587 is a reliable motor, but just doesnt have the "punch" a 657x does...if you can call it that...its like 7hp.
The 657x engine parts DO NOT SWAP with any other motor. It would also be interesting to see what iginition they installed. I would guess they used the 587 ebox and 4 wirestator/flywheel. The 657x XPs used a 5 wire iginiton with an amplifier.
The 657x engine parts DO NOT SWAP with any other motor. It would also be interesting to see what iginition they installed. I would guess they used the 587 ebox and 4 wirestator/flywheel. The 657x XPs used a 5 wire iginiton with an amplifier.
not really...I'd find a 720 setup if you really want to do anything...but you'll need a 720 MPEM, carbs, and ebox to do it.
My brother has one if interested. His SN is 99SPXXX.
My brother has one if interested. His SN is 99SPXXX.
Yeah...thats a killer. If you have a friend over the border you can send it to and then p/u thats the way to go.
If you go that route. I'm about an hour out of Windsor. Don't know where you are in Ontario? Maybe someone in NY would be closer for you????
manolocross
Well-Known Member
i beleive the 657x engine is rated at about 80 horsepower and the regular 657 is about 5 horses less...when compared to a 587 that is rated at 50 horses, that is a big diff in power!
Well I'm in Kitchener, so it's a little bit of a drive, but doable I suppose. I'm very sure it's an xp.... The P/O repainted it silver and black so colour is indistinguishable, but it has the rear grab handle, and hood with mirrors built in.... I was told those are signs of an xp. If I do an engine it won't be for a bit yet, it runs so I'd like to get to use it at least once before I do any large modifications to it, and see how I like it. So there is no way to put 657 (non x) cylinders on a 587 block? Money is tight for me as I'm not working until we get more snow, and I got a free case, crank, carbs, manifolds, and rods for a white 587.... If 657 cylinders would fit it, I'd buy some on eBay with pistons and heads, and build that engine up when I make the money, and use the 587 that's in it until that's ready to go in. I'm just trying to see if it's even feasible.... I'd imagine if it was it would provide a good boost in power, still not a 657x but an improvement anyway, and cylinders don't seem too expensive to ship. Any opinions? I like trying new things too, I'm weird like that. I'm not sure how much life is in the 587 anyway, on the compression test I got 145 and 130, both high enough to run, but with a fair variation. Anyway, I appreciate any and all input, thanks everyone
Okay thank you very much. I will send you a pm when it comes time to order an engine. Anyone got opinions on sbt engines? I don't have a core for anything larger than a 587, but I could probably get one good enough to go sbt... I've heard good things and bad things about them though. Perhaps it's all opinion?
Again...the motor is only half the battle...you then need correct carbs, Ebox, and prop at the very least.
If you need a 657x core I can provide one fairly cheap.
SBT has gotten cheap with their bearings and stuff...its not a huge deal on a 657 though. SES is also another possible choice.
BUT you get what you pay for. If you plan to keep it a long time I would recommend get one done thru someone who uses high end aftermarket or OEM parts.
If you need a 657x core I can provide one fairly cheap.
SBT has gotten cheap with their bearings and stuff...its not a huge deal on a 657 though. SES is also another possible choice.
BUT you get what you pay for. If you plan to keep it a long time I would recommend get one done thru someone who uses high end aftermarket or OEM parts.
Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
Since it's been repainted... I'm going to say it's NOT an XP. It's an SP. The upper hulls are the same for that year. It's very easy to put on a grab handle, and a hood. They are common, cheep eBay parts. Also... the 657x engine is what made the XP what it was. So, regardless what the owner says... it's no longer an XP with the smaller engine.
Unless it's cheap, and runs well (in the water) I wouldn't touch it.
As Minnitonka said... there is a lot more to it than just an engine. If you drop the money into it, to install a 657x engine (or 720) you will never get your money back out of it.
Unless it's cheap, and runs well (in the water) I wouldn't touch it.
As Minnitonka said... there is a lot more to it than just an engine. If you drop the money into it, to install a 657x engine (or 720) you will never get your money back out of it.
Okay, thanks for all the answers everyone. My boat registration says xp as well, so now I'm really confused... Anyway regardless, it was cheap so im going to try and make it work. The other thing is, being a 94, wouldn't an sp be single carb on a 587? This has a twin carb 587. But alas I have lots to learn. Minnitonka I will pm you about that 657x core, thanks
ocod
Well-Known Member
see if this helps.
Look at the rub rail color
http://www.seadoosource.com/seadoomodelreference.html
last two digits vin# is year
Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
I don't know how the HIN (VIN) will tell the model. A seadoo dealer could run a check.
One last thing... the SPi had a rear handle, and the 587 engine. At that point, it's a $60 hood away from what you are telling us.
I guess before we get hung up on what it actually is... what are they asking for it? ($$$) If the paint job is VERY good, it has a nice trailer, it's in good cosmetic shape, and it runs well... it's a $1000 ski. If there are any cosmetic flaws, and it needs some love... it's only worth $500 to $800.
FYI... this is what $1500 will get if you look around. (I picked it up last summer. it's an 800 XP)
One last thing... the SPi had a rear handle, and the 587 engine. At that point, it's a $60 hood away from what you are telling us.
I guess before we get hung up on what it actually is... what are they asking for it? ($$$) If the paint job is VERY good, it has a nice trailer, it's in good cosmetic shape, and it runs well... it's a $1000 ski. If there are any cosmetic flaws, and it needs some love... it's only worth $500 to $800.
FYI... this is what $1500 will get if you look around. (I picked it up last summer. it's an 800 XP)
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That is a beautiful ski!! Thing is, up here everything is a little more expensive... An 800 like that would be about $2500 minimum, if I took a fair drive to get it. Mine was ony $600, so it's really cheap. It's seems to run fine and everything, but it could definentley use some attention.... Is there a possibility that it could be a 93' xp?
Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
Yes... it could be a 93 XP. As OCOD said... last 2 numbers are the year.
It's common to see people cobble together older skis. Since it's been painted... it could be a compost from a few skis/years.
If you only paid $600, and it's in running order... then I wouldn't feel bad. That's an OK price for a running ski. BUT... I wouldn't worry about trying to put a different engine in it. It will be cheaper to sell it, and find one with a bigger engine.
FYI... a used good 720 or 657x engine will get +$700. (Then you will still need the electronics, carbs, and pipe)
Thanks for the complement. $1500 isn't the normal going price. It took almost 3 years to find that one. (Good price, and un-molested)
It's common to see people cobble together older skis. Since it's been painted... it could be a compost from a few skis/years.
If you only paid $600, and it's in running order... then I wouldn't feel bad. That's an OK price for a running ski. BUT... I wouldn't worry about trying to put a different engine in it. It will be cheaper to sell it, and find one with a bigger engine.
FYI... a used good 720 or 657x engine will get +$700. (Then you will still need the electronics, carbs, and pipe)
Thanks for the complement. $1500 isn't the normal going price. It took almost 3 years to find that one. (Good price, and un-molested)
Yeah you did very well for sure. I would have jumped on that deal as well. So I suppose what I'm looking at then is a 93' xp, with a white 587 twin carb installed. Well, I'll use it while I can. No sense in selling it until I get some use out of it, it's a cheap way for me to try the sport anyway. Thanks for all the input. One last question, there appears to have been a knob for something on the left side under the mirror, but I'm not sure what it was for... There is also a cable no attached to anything coming from the rear of the ski, could this have been trim control? Thanks
94seadoox_p
Member
[QUOTEFYI... this is what $1500 will get if you look around. (I picked it up last summer. it's an 800 XP)
[/QUOTE]
:thumbsup: So sorry to hijack, but....I absolutely love that ski and want one so so badly, what a smoking deal.
:thumbsup: So sorry to hijack, but....I absolutely love that ski and want one so so badly, what a smoking deal.
Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
Honestly... if you are just getting into JetSkis... there is nothing wrong with the small engine. If it's running good, and the pump is in good shape... you can squeak 40~43 mph out of it. Also, the small engine is very easy on fuel. I think at full throttle it only burns 5gal/hr. AND... since you only have 8 gal of fuel... that helps the riding going. MY 800 can drink down the fuel tank in under an hour, if I'm really flogging it. If I'm bouncing around, and just getting wet... I can go a few hours before needing fuel. The 587 will go all afternoon with normal "play" riding.
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